Wanted: New Playtester Feedback
TappedOut forum
Posted on Oct. 1, 2015, 4:01 p.m. by yeaGO
Pull up any deck you like and throw playtest/ onto the end of the URL then come here and type feedback. =)
First off let me just a personal thank you for all your time the Tappedout team have devoted to creating such an awesome tool.Thank you...
Clearly there are many Tappedout fans and many excellent comments (even if they are a little harsh at times), the only comment I think worth mentioning is that - could you please maintain the usability on the average smart phone via a web interface and not an app.
Other than that I'm sure you have your work cut out for you and thanks again Tappedout.
October 22, 2015 5:24 a.m.
PlagueRats says... #3
Effectively unplayable on my Iphone. I don't like it on my desktop either. Way better before :(
October 22, 2015 12:19 p.m.
PlagueRats says... #4
Zoomed to 120% on desktop with Firefox is ok.
New Life/Poison counter system is an improvement
The Battlefield:XX counter means nothing to me, I'd rather see the turn counter displayed more prominently in the center
There's way too much empty space between card positions and not nearly enough of them. I think people like to see unrealistic board states while playtesting, it's fun to see 8+ creatures along with a dozen tokens on the table.
Love that tokens have images now!!
The new Card detail/adjustment window is nice, but the note section seems useless because it forgets as soon as the card leaves the battle field
Does anyone use the global +/- power/toughness/counters buttons? It's never something any deck I've built would ever use. Maybe that space could be better used?
Still my favorite deck building site though, thanks for everything!
October 22, 2015 12:43 p.m.
setheroth666 says... #5
New user interface is all but unusable. I have to scroll all the way to the top of the screen every time I take a new turn, then scroll back down. This can be solved by playing on a tiny unreadable screen however. Having such a limited amount of piles where I can organize what I have in play is really annoying. It takes so many more clicks and time to send a card to a different zone I.E. put on the bottom of the library, and every time you do i snaps to the top of the screen making lots of cards tedious tasks. Adjusting how many counters a permanent has on it is far less intuitive. I cant simply click to go back 1 window to my deck list instead having to click through every game that I played or go home and then find my deck again, its really frustrating. To its credit I will say that I like seeing a big image of a card when I hover over it.
October 22, 2015 1:04 p.m.
setheroth666 says... #6
I hate that I cant organize my hand freely, instead only being able to take any card and move it to the very outside. Seriously the last tester wasnt broken why are you trying to fix it.
October 22, 2015 1:21 p.m.
Eviscerator14 says... #7
It's been said before, but yeah the cards are too small to read. And I can't organize my hand the way I like since if I move a card it always goes to the right of the hand. The space between cards is also too big, you can't fit a loaded board in there very easily. Also it feels very odd when the cards are just moving on their own and instantly sideways when tapping. I would really like it if we went back to the old playtester.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
October 22, 2015 1:43 p.m.
The_Murderauder says... #8
Another thing. What happened to the "log" function? I found that very useful to keep track of things during long and complicated turns.
Also, regarding tokens now working: They worked for a long, long time on the previous playtester. Tokens being "broken" is only a recent thing to begin with.
October 22, 2015 1:45 p.m.
I won't say there are no improvements (tokens working is huge), but in general, this feels like a step backward. Another thing that is missing but that I can live without is that there are no more settings. Being able to disable auto untap and auto draw was useful when cards like stasis were on the board.
October 22, 2015 4:44 p.m.
I also agree that this is a massive step backwards. Its almost totally unusable as is. Please don't take this as whining though, I have a list of constructive points:
1) The shuffler when a deck initially loads is so poor that I have to put all opening 7 on top of library again and then manually shuffle over and over just to avoid drawing 3-4 of the same card in a row over and over.
2) Previously, when pressing spacebar on a card, there were many ways to interact with it, +1/+1 counters, etc, now all you can do is manually adjust the PT, and even that functionality bugs out extremely regularly and no changes to the PT are saved after leaving that window prompt.
3) Spacing within the browser window is so much more wasteful than it used to be, meaning that the cards are reduced in size and things become more difficult to manipulate.
October 24, 2015 8:17 a.m.
yeaGO, can you tell us why you went and made such a drastic change? now that you have our attention, maybe the core group of us that care this much about the playtester can help you deal with what you were trying to solve?
October 24, 2015 5:47 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #12
Most likely it was because it had some features and improvements that the old one didn't have, and the rest could be fixed. Remember that this went out of beta because either yeago thought it was done due to the lack of feedback given to the playtester, or because he wanted more feedback for his playtester that this thread didn't give, and making it the default playtester would definitely give him the feedback he needed.
The newer version had benefits going for it like:
- Working Tokens
- Notes on Cards
- Commander Zone
- Ability to Change Card Size Through +/- Buttons
- More Hotkeys
- Card Overlay on Mouse-Over
- Lots More Space to Implement New Features
- More Streamlined/Easier to Look At
- Easier for Newer Players to Learn How to Use and Not Become Overwhelmed.
As for the list of negatives, you can just go through what everyone else said in the numerous forums made about this.
October 24, 2015 9:27 p.m.
So i was wondering why I hadn't noticed this new playtester until the day I made my comments when this forum thread has existed for weeks and I've been playtesting all October. I realized I wasn't logged in today and when I logged in, the 'playtest' button took me back to the previous version, which seems to mostly explain why I hadn't noticed the new version earlier.
Anyways, more feedback on the new one: The old version has a link in the upper left to both the deck's page and the user's page. I have not found these links on the new playtester (are they not loading for me?), and it would nice for navigation purposes. Also, on a superficial note, one thing I always wondered was how difficult it would be to have a smallish icon of the 'featured art' for the deck near the deck's name and these links as well.
I can further confirm the initial shuffling issues I mentioned after noticing it on multiple devices in multiple browsers loading multiple decks. If i just press 'y' and put all 7 back on top and click 'shuffle' a half dozen times, the next 7 I draw seem fine and randomized. Seems like some kind of issue in applying randomization when the deck initially loads, as the shuffler itself still seems perfectly functional when used manually.
If no one else is having these randomization issues, I can make some screenshots and link them for illustration.
October 26, 2015 5:05 a.m.
ABadMagicPlayer100 says... #15
The cards are too large given the space I have available. I'd like to see the cards scale down to the given space, especially since there are popups on hover now. The other thing I've been thinking about for awhile is that in the old playtester, the navigation bar isn't present. While this isn't an absolute must, it would create a little more space (as you can see in the screenshot, the hand, library, and exile zones fall just a bit below my screen).
October 29, 2015 6:23 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #16
On mobile (IPhone Safari) I don't know how to change the size of the card images so four turns of basic lands and a couple permanents takes up my whole play area.
Other than that no complaints.
October 29, 2015 7:02 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #17
The problem I have is that if I press "b" for enters the battlefield on cards in hand, they automatically get behind something and you have to shuffle cards around to get at them. The ability for smart placement of cards was really nice.
This isn't entirely restricted to the "snap to grid" option turned off where the issue is most prevalent however. When turned on, cards don't have smart placement to like cards. For example, if play a forest, mountain and a plains, and another plains, the second plains may be placed ontop of the forest instead ontop of the first plains.
EDIT: Also, having a scroll bar for the life total when you gain some 20 life from an effect would be nice.
October 29, 2015 7:09 p.m. Edited.
Triforce-Finder says... #18
Just gave it another run, I like the progress it's making.
The option to change card size would be nice.
With the current (bigger) size, I get a second hand row off screen when I have more than 6 cards in hand, and board space is used up quickly, too.
I'm currently just playing with zoom set somewhere between 70% and 90% depending on how much space I need, works good enough.
October 30, 2015 9:23 a.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #19
The "add +1/+1" button is buggy. The first time you add a +1/+1 counter, it sets both power and toughness to 1 instead of incrementing it.
October 30, 2015 9:42 a.m.
TeraInferno says... #20
Here is my feedback:
Thanks for adding some library manipulation.
One thing that I would like to see is separate life counters for you (the player) and your opponent. That way you can keep track of how low you would go when paying life for certain cards or abilities while play testing.
Another thing that would be REALLY cool is if there was a way to attack auras or equipment to permanents. This way they would be able to grouped together. If we want to be ambitious, adding a parser for these auras/and equipments would also be awesome. For example, If I attached a Rancor to a creature, that creatures Power would automatically increase by 2 and would gain a note of it having Trample. As a software developer, I would be willing to help add this parser engine for free if you are interested.
Another good additon would be the ability to add a generic counter to permanents. This could be used to simulate loyalty counters on planeswalkers, the counters on the Vivid lands, or counters from cards like That Which Was Taken.
November 1, 2015 11:52 a.m.
ABadMagicPlayer100 says... #21
For some reason, the restart button functions strangely. The first time I pressed it, I it OK in the dialog, and then nothing happened. I repeated this process, and the second time the entire playtester froze for several seconds, and then restarted. I don't know what's going on here, but something needs fixing...
November 1, 2015 12:17 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #22
I don't think that is possible TeraInferno. That would require an entire new entry in our card database system, and someone (mainly me) would have to go through all the cards in existence to add the data to that entry for it to work in the playtester.
November 1, 2015 1:49 p.m.
ABadMagicPlayer100 says... #23
Femme_Fatale I think that would be possible if someone (probably TeraInferno) wrote some code to read the rules text from the database and figured out how to make it do buffs and debuffs based off of that text.
November 1, 2015 2:40 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #24
Only one who would do that would be yeago, and there is a problem with doing that, our rules text isn't always the same. Remember that oracle texts can change and things can become before or after a phrase in a rules text making it really difficult to get this code working properly for something that can be just done with changing the power and toughness of the creature using the hotkeys.
November 1, 2015 2:56 p.m.
ABadMagicPlayer100 says... #25
I had forgotten that oracle text doesn't get updated on here... But in theory the code could get written by someone else just to read the text, and then yeago could implement it.
November 1, 2015 3:17 p.m.
TeraInferno says... #26
Honestly, I am sure I could do it. Many of the mechanics in Magic do have very specific language. The oracle text is also the go to reference as well. It would involve parsing cards text (and querying the oracle text if needed) for these specific phrasings. There are nice ways of making the parsing engine in an abstract and generalized fashion that can rapidly accommodate rules changes and other game changes. Keeping in mind, I am offering my professional skills to help improve this website for free. This kind of improvements can help make tappedout.net better than its competition.
November 1, 2015 3:19 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #27
Well, you'll have to talk to yeaGO. He handles the coding for the entire site by himself, and since numerous other users have offered him help in the past, I don't think he will say yes.
November 1, 2015 6:03 p.m.
First, I'd like to thank yeaGO and any team he may have that worked on this new feature. It's pretty sweet, and I look forward to seeing improvements to it. So on to the list of my findings
The Good
- The layout: I think the layout is really cool and more intuitive than playtest 1.
- "Freeform" placement on the board: I love this feature. The snapping tool got on my nerves frequently, so I'm excited to place cards the way I normally would.
The Bad
- It's buggy (duh, it's brand new.)
- Can't select the left most card in hand. (Fatally serious)
- If you have 5 (or less) cards in hand, you can't select any cards (Fatally serious)
- If the "fixed hand" setting is unchecked, no cards in your hand can be selected.
The Ugly
- Formatting issues: div.col-lg-4 extends way below screen
- Can only alter life totals in increments of 1
I'm running playtest II on a Chrome browser, so others may have different results.
Imported this comment from the thread I made for consolidation purposes.
November 4, 2015 5:11 p.m.
RegisteredDecksOffender says... #29
First of all, I would like to say I'm really digging the effort being put forth by those who are developing the new playtester. I think its getting closer and closer to how the T/O playtester should function and look.
A few things however..
I know a lot of people have expressed concern with how small the board is.. I found that when playtesting my EDH deck the board got cluttered quick with all the 1 ofs that wouldn't make sense to stack.
I noticed people complained when the cards were too small, and I hate to be the one complaining that the cards are too big.. So to that I offer a solution.
Is there perhaps a way to add a feature into the settings that allows the user to scale the card size up or down according to their own level of comfortability?
Perhaps in the settings feature you could choose to display cards at 100% (Default), 75%, and maybe even 50%?
That being said, in my fantasy dream land Playtester 2 would remember what the user chose so every time you went to playtest a deck it would automatically set the card display size to what you chose.
Is this doable and how does everyone feel about this idea?
(p.s. didn't read every single post so if this has already been brought up, my apologies.)
November 4, 2015 5:20 p.m.
Things I'd like to see:
- A card sizing option to change the sizes for different users.
- Containers set to a percentage of the screen size rather than a fixed px width.
November 4, 2015 5:23 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #31
- yeaGO does it all himself. Ignoring feedback of course.
- The images were once too small, and now are too big.
November 5, 2015 12:41 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #32
@aeonstoremyliver reminded everyone of a very much desired feature that we requested heavily in the old playtester:
Ability to sideboard our decks for games 2 and 3!
November 5, 2015 12:43 a.m.
I think it would be very useful if right click just opened the spacebar menu, since it's a bit of a usage fail for me. I always instinctively right click for options, and having to remember to hover+spacebar is a detriment to me.
November 5, 2015 2:04 p.m.
FancyTuesday says... #35
Trying to move cards from exile to your hand works if there's a card in it, but if your hand is empty it deletes the card. Found while goldfishing Memory Jar.
November 5, 2015 2:47 p.m.
TeraInferno says... #36
Thanks for the updates and Improvements!!!
Here is some more feedback:
- One thing that might be very nice would be the ability to group like cards into a single stack on the board. For example, It would be nice if you could group basic lands into one stack. This way, they would take up less screen space. With the current system, basic lands can get to be quite cluttered once you get a bunch of them on the field. If they were grouped together, you would be able to have a cleaner user interface. The downside is that you would need to interact with the 'collection' instead of each one individually. Still think it is a good idea.
- Another feature that would be nice would be a place to keep track of various numbers/stats. Currently, there is some screen space on the right below all the buttons. In that space, it might be nice to add a couple number trackers. The reason for this is to allow playtesters to keep track of numbers related to various mechanics. This could include numbers such as storm count, devotion count, permanent of type X count , experience counters, and so on.
- I also think that the library view could use improvements so that it better facilitates library filtering mechanics. It would be nice to be able to look at the top X cards of you library. This would help facilitate mechanics like Scrying as well as other cards with library looking effects. The way it is currently, You either need to pull the cards into another zone or you look at the entire library. This The first is a bit clumsy while the second gives more information than you would have in a real game and thus invalidating the playtest.
Thanks a bunch and keep it up!
November 5, 2015 3:24 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #37
HOLY SHIT YOU CAN SEE ALTERS IN THE PLAYTESTER!
@ aeonstoremyliver, you can now sideboard!!
Could we have a default medium option? Large is too big, small is too small. The cards should be the same size as the cards in V1.
The "snap to grid" feature doesn't snap cards properly when they are small. It snaps as though they were large.
The graveyard, exile and library sections don't resize to the large cards.
November 5, 2015 3:48 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #38
Yay for sideboard!!
Also, I know that this hasn't been brought up much, but in the old tester, I really liked how the lands would automatically go to the left bottom corner, the creatures to the left top corner, and the rest to the right side. Perhaps that could be implemented as well?
November 5, 2015 4:03 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #39
Holy freqking Storm Crow! I love you people!
November 5, 2015 4:24 p.m.
ABadMagicPlayer100 says... #40
It would be nice to have an option to change the delay for a card image popping up. I often hover over a card for a few seconds at a time while making a decision, and the popup is a little intrusive at times.
Also, I found a bug with the freeform layout. The screenshot should explain it nicely:
November 5, 2015 4:28 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #41
"I PUT MY CARDS ON YOUR BATTLEFIELD, AND HAVE MY HAND FLOAT IN FRONT OF ME!"
November 5, 2015 4:29 p.m.
ABadMagicPlayer100 says... #42
Actually, all of the cards are on the battlefield. There just needs to be a margin so you can't position the cards that close to the edge. Further investigation reveals that you can also do this on the left and right edges.
November 5, 2015 5:53 p.m.
YOU CAN SIDEBOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HOLY SHIT THANK YOU Femme_Fatale and yeaGO!!!!!!!!!!!
November 5, 2015 5:57 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #44
I do nothing in regards to coding CheeseBro. It's funny that you should mention me because out of the 3 main mods around here, I'm the one with the least amount of privs.
November 5, 2015 6 p.m.
Wizard_of_the_Broke says... #45
Good stuff: I like the design of the new playtester quite a bit, particularly the magnified card views. The addition of the edit board alone makes the new tester project worthwhile - and it's an intuitive and simple feature - well done. Would love to see tokens power/toughness displayed, and generally differentiated (e.g. Garruk Relentless Flip/Garruk, the Veil-Cursed gave me access on the token menu to 2/2 Wolf, but not 1/1 deathtouch Wolf) - but that's all minor.
Buggy stuff: Transformed card images seem to be broken (e.g. Insectile Aberration, Garruk, the Veil-Cursed - even after flipped back over). I was consistently unable to interact with the leftmost card in hand (no magnified view, could not select). I occasionally completely lost ability to interact with the entire hand after a few minutes of play, forcing restart (though I could still interact with new draws).
Note: Using crappy windows XP laptop with 4:3 display aspect ratio, Chrome v 46.0.2490.80 browser.
Keep up the good work!
November 5, 2015 6:44 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #46
Windows XP is far superior than anything on the market. It's just that Microsoft no longer supports it >.>
However your laptop, will probably still be crappy :p
November 5, 2015 8:08 p.m.
Wizard_of_the_Broke says... #47
Indeed, Femme_Fatale - still clinging to this XP machine because it's still a great OS (and because I'm waiting for parts for my other machine). If I could only revert to Android 4 point something, I'd be all set.
November 6, 2015 2:18 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #48
I have a suggestion! It'll make my work much more easier!
Effects like Clone and Rite of Replication need to be taken account into the playtester. Effects in general that create a copy of any creature is kinda annoying to have to keep track on the playtester.
My solution: The ability to "copy" any card on the battlefield and generate it as a token. Basically it will look like the original card, but the playtester sees it as a token, and thus won't interfere with the game.
November 6, 2015 1:56 p.m.
Don't sell yourself short Femme_Fatale, you contribute a lot with your good suggestions and diligent feedback!
Thank you so much for all of your hard work yeaGO! You've addressed all of my concerns and then some!
The only thing I can find to pick at now is dragging cards. When you drag them, they appear on whatever layer they were when you began dragging them. This means that whenever you play a new card from your hand, you have to drag it 'underneath' everything else. Would it be practical to have the card jump to the top-most layer as soon as it starts being dragged, without jumping it to the front layer if you just simply click on it? Again, thanks for all your hard work! This new playtester is awesome!
November 7, 2015 10:49 a.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #50
Two things: moving cards from the grave to the field makes them vanish (not in decks, not in hands, not in grave, they just disappear) and after you board and restart, you can't tap cards anymore.
FrostyJams says... #1
I am going to presume that this new playtester is just outright unfinished because there is no new functionality that wows me and it is now completely unusable on an iPad or any cell phone. Would you please put the old playtester back up until development on the new one is actually complete. As is, this is a huge step backwards for the Tappedout playtester.
October 22, 2015 4:52 a.m.