Idea for a New Budget Format
General forum
Posted on March 31, 2020, 9:31 a.m. by Mindlessbuilder
So I have been thinking up a new idea for a budget eternal format and I would like to ask some of you for your opinions.
So each deck will be limited to a maximum of 40 cards with the usual restriction of 4 cards of the same name. Each card other then basic lands will be worth points, with each deck limited to 30 points total. The format will use the same ban cards as historic.
Each card's point value will be determined by there rarity. Commons will be worth 1 point, uncommon 2 points, rares 5 points, and mythic rares 7 points.
So what do you think, is it to restrictive, what would be a way to improve the format ?
I agree with Boza's concerns, but wanted to point out another issue.
A 40-card deck means you have an average of 17 lands. That leaves 23 non-land cards.
If you run a Mythic, your deck will look like this: 1 Mythic; 1 Uncommon; 21 commons. That's a bad deck for the format--it is basically Pauper with a 1/40 chance of drawing a card that will shape the entire game in your favor, meaning random chance is disproportionately powerful.
You also can only ever run one Rare--two rares burns up 10 of your points, leaving you too few points to "purchase" the remaining 21 commons you need. Rares would have the same problems as Mythics, albeit some more consistency due to being able to run more uncommons.
So, you've essentially created a format where it is an extended Pauper--most decks will just be a mix of uncommons and commons, as banking on drawing the one rare/mythic is not a viable strategy and wastes too many points.
At that point, you might as well just play Pauper--a format that already has an established following.
March 31, 2020 12:01 p.m.
There are also other budget formats, Penny Dreadful (I think this is based on card price) and I was sure there was a format that was just common and uncommon.
I get what your shooting for but I think applying points based on card quality and not rarity is a much better goal. Demonic Tutor is an uncommon for example that in an above example would be effectively copy 2 of one of your Mythic giving you still 21 points for your remaining 21 cards or get greedy and toss in two and run 18 lands.
The other option is just go deep on a ban list but then I think just pointing the offenders is better.
Maybe look at Canadian Highlander (I think there are other variations in Germany and Australia) and mimic there point list and lower the number of points over all as they are 100 cards vs your 40.
March 31, 2020 12:57 p.m.
GoblinElectromancer says... #5
Storm would be the only deck in the format with Dark Ritual and Cabal Ritual as commons and Tendrils of Agony as an uncommon. Then there are busted cantrips such as Brainstorm and Ponder that are commons. Good idea but you need a much bigger ban list and allow more points for each deck like 40.
March 31, 2020 1:40 p.m.
I actually really like the base Idea you put forth. I think if you wanted to do something like this modern would be the format to go for. You would need to go through the format possibly ban more cards and assign each card a value. And you need to keep the format at 60 cards. 40 card decks with play sets of cards are just too consistent. You can try to use the Canadian highlander point system as a template but youd only be able to go so far with it as cards in edh are weighed differently then in non singleton formats and non multiplayer formats
March 31, 2020 2:51 p.m.
shadow63 Canadian Highlander is a 1v1 format so it's point system would be a lot closer then you would think.
Also if you go into a more broad point system (outside just rarity) you would want to go singleton to keep it budget. You could still apply points based on rarity as a baseline and test the format out to see what cards need pointed down or up. That being said once you start down that road you may want to wipe the points totally from all commons just to make your life easier and only add points where needed.
March 31, 2020 3:09 p.m.
I think that you need to take a step back here and figure out what you're trying to achieve. Just saying "it's a budget format" isn't much in the way of reasoning - is the goal of the format affordability? Because at $90 a piece, Force of Will is an uncommon (Alliances) and Rhystic Study is $18 (Prophecy). So just aligning dollars = rarity is not going to achieve this. And more than this, Pauper and Penny Dreadful both already exist as established formats with the goal of making them affordable.
And if the focus isn't specifically affordability, then what does this format provide? Standard provides a rotating card pool (i.e. shifting meta), modern, legacy and vintage are all varied power level formats, the highlanders (canadian/Australain) provide points based systems to balance broken cards while still making them accessible and commander is well, commander. So what's the selling point of this format?
Before figuring out the details of the format, spend some more time on the mission statement and what you're trying to achieve (the "why" of it all). It will provide you more guidance when coming up with details and will help to keep everything to a solid theme.
March 31, 2020 11:13 p.m.
Mindlessbuilder says... #9
First of all I would like to thank all of your for taking your time and leaving such wonderful comments. After a brief overview, I have concluded that there are three main issue with the format I propose.
1.What function does this format serve ?
2.what is the goal of the point system?
3.Why are the cards points based on there rarity ?
!.
A majority of the replies tell me that there are much better alternatives to this format. I am Inclined to agree. In a vacuum if we compare this format to such all-stars as pauper or highlander the latter would obviously win out. Sadly it is just not possible for me to get into such formats in my current condition.
For some context, I live in Indonesia and MTG is a relatively new phenomenon here. A side effect of this is that it's very hard to find cards from older set. So you can technically play pauper or highlander but you are forced to choose between restricting yourself to standard card or shipping the cards from out of the country, which as you may have guessed is exorbitantly expensive. So if you want to get into a non-rotating format your option are either commander, historic or to some extent pioneer.
Now I like commander, but sometimes you don't want to spend an entire afternoon on a single match. Meanwhile historic and pioneer are not exactly popular here. With most of my friends in the games store being quite nervous in investing time and money is such young formats with uncertain futures.
So what's the solution ? Create a cheaper version of historic so players can have a safe space to experiment with the format without having to worry about cost. But then if i just want a cheaper version of historic why do I not just place a 5 or 10 dollar cap on each deck ? Why would I even bother with a point system. This brings me to my second point.
2.
The goal of the point system is flexibility. If I were to simply place a price limit either on individual cards or deck as a whole, once prices fluctuate the issue of legality becomes a nightmare. Players would have to constantly check whether or not there decks are still legal.
Meanwhile if I restrict the format to only using commons the fact that we only have access to cards from standard would greatly reduce the amount of decks that could be created. with deck loosing access to mechanics exclusive to higher rarities (Boardwipes, Planeswalkwes, legendaries, etc).
In the end the point system is a compromise allowing players to use powerful cards, while still maintaining a cheap budget. But then how does the point system create a budget format you may ask ? This brings me to my third point.
3.
The more powerful the card the more expensive it is. I don't think that's a controversial sentiment. Sure there are factors such as scarcity that contribute to a card's price, but as a rule of thumb the more powerful the card, the more players want it ergo the price of the card increases.
Therefor if one would like to create a budget format it would only make sense to restrict the use of these powerful cards. So what those this have to do with rarity. So far I have been talking about the power level of cards something that most of you have pointed out is unrelated to there rarity.
Now if you were to look at the history of magic the gathering as a whole you would be right. But in Standard and by extension historic, wizard's have strictly maintained the relationship between power level and rarity.
So since the format will use cards from historic the simplest way to regulate these powerful card and with it the price of getting into the format is to just point them based on there rarity. at least that's my point of view on the matter.
I would like to thank you all again for commenting and I am sorry if my original post has been unclear or this clarification a bit meandering. Who know's maybe playing highlander or pauper with standard cards wouldn't be as bad as I thought. or maybe all i need to do is perfect the format I propose. Who know's ?
April 2, 2020 10:33 a.m.
You could try and do Pioneer Pauper. The advantage is that your local meta has access to the cards as they are newer but also starts to dip your guys toes into a new format that looks like it's here to stay. Also Pioneer will be coming to Arena in the future so that should also help.
I'm not trying to say what your doing is a bad idea more looking now at the longevity and health of your local meta as this format or a variation of it will see play outside your local meta.
April 2, 2020 10:48 a.m.
TriusMalarky says... #11
I don't know how long Magic's been in Indonesia, and a quick google search left me pretty empty handed.
First, Historic is only for MTGA. It's also just a placeholder until WotC gets Pioneer on there.
Second, Wizards supported formats are hard to kill. Pioneer is a fairly balanced format, and most of the degenerate stuff has been banned out. In fact, I'd argue that for at least a couple years, Pioneer is going to be a great format to get into. It's new, you can still brew without getting weird unique cards, and the tier decks aren't that hard to beat.
Modern has lived a long time, and there's no reason Pioneer won't. We have so many newer players coming in that don't have access to Modern or Legacy cards, and Standard is horrendous, so there's going to be a fairly constant flow from newer players into Pioneer and Commander, and from there to Modern and possibly eventually Legacy.
A budget format I've played with friends and had a lot of success with is "$30 limit". Essentially, your deck must cost $30 maximum. The problem there is that most of the high power cards you have access to are very old cards. I mean, Gitaxian Probe is only a dollar but it's been banned in everything. That's what happens with that format -- you get to play the cards that were so bad that they got banned in literally everything, but without the pricey cards that ran the decks.
I recommend playing Pioneer or Standard with your friends. If it's still a small game there, nobody is going to be running tier decks anyway. Everyone at my LGS is either in High School or in College with the small exceptions of the store owners and 1-2 other players, and I easily get away with running stupid homebrews and get second every week. Nothing I play is tier. I expect a similar meta for you, but I don't know your budget.
If you're really looking for older cards, there are bulk boxes available online of thousands of cards. If you get the right ones, you can reasonably get your hands on cards from a year or two ago, and use those to start building Pioneer, or even just Artisan Pioneer. Artisan is Commons and Uncommons.
Boza says... #2
Isn't pauper good enough as a budget format? Rarity and power level are not the same.
The only way to this points list is to:
1/ Determine the pool of cards
2/ Assign points to specific cards.
Even then, this eternal format already exists - check out Canadian Highlander.
March 31, 2020 9:42 a.m.