Illegal mana in commander/EDH format?
Asked by Mr_crazydude 7 years ago
Is it illegal to have land that can create or requires mana of other types than your commander?
I have Atraxa, Praetors' Voice as my commander and I thought it would be a nice combo with Raging Ravine. There are cards in the deck that can create mana of any color, with which I could activate the ravine. I'm just not sure if this is allowed? Do the rules state that your land has to be of the commander type?
Mr_crazydude says... #2
Yeah thought so, but it couldn't hurt to ask. Maybe there was an exception to land or something. Anyway thank you for your quick response!
November 6, 2016 5:12 p.m.
Additionally, you cannot have lands with a basic land type outside of your color identity, so even though Stomping Ground doesn't have mana symbols on it (reminder text doesn't count), because it's a forest you can't use it. You could however use Wooded Foothills, because it neither has nor the forest subtype. Similarly Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth can be run in nonblack decks.
November 6, 2016 8:27 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
@Neotrup: Each basic land type confers a mana ability to cards that have that subtype.
Stomping Ground has the abilities ": Add to your mana pool" and ": Add to your mana pool."
The reason lands with foreign basic land types can't be used in a deck is that they have these abilities. There's no general rule about basic land type exclusion in Commander.
November 7, 2016 9:06 a.m.
903.4b
Reminder text is ignored when determining a cards color identity. See rule 207.2.
And
903.5d
A card with a basic land type may be included in a Commander deck only if each color of mana it could produce is included in the commanders color identity.
The first rule is important because it allows Blind Obedience in monowhite decks, Crypt Ghast in monoblack decks, and Charmed Pendant in any deck. The second rule is important so lands play like the first rule doesn't exist.
Also, back to the thread title (even though it wasn't explicitly asked), there is no illegal mana in EDH, Gilded Lotus can produce in Sen Triplets. This used to not be the case, making it produce instead, but then became useful so they got rid of that rule.
November 7, 2016 1:51 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #6
Interesting. That rule is redundant, then.
305.6. The basic land types are Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, and Forest. If an object uses the words "basic land type," it's referring to one of these subtypes. A land with a basic land type has the intrinsic ability ": Add [mana symbol] to your mana pool," even if the text box doesn't actually contain that text or the object has no text box. For Plains, [mana symbol] is ; for Islands, ; for Swamps, ; for Mountains, ; and for Forests, . See rule 107.4a. See also rule 605, "Mana Abilities."
These abilities are considered when determining color identity; I suppose 903.5d exists only for clarity on a given use case.
November 7, 2016 2:15 p.m.
Mr_crazydude says... #7
So wait, adding Raging Ravine to an EDH deck with Atraxa, Praetors' Voice is possible after all?
November 7, 2016 4:06 p.m.
@Mr_crazydude
No its still not legal. they were simply discussing the redundancies in the rules that make it illegal for a non red commander.
Basically the general rule of thumb is that since it has red mana symbols ( ) you cannot run it in a non red edh deck.
November 7, 2016 4:26 p.m.
Sorry, the answer is still no. I was saying you could get off of something like Darksteel Ingot to activate a Raging Ravine you Annexed from an opponent, but you still can't include the Ravine in your own deck because it explicitly has on the card.
November 7, 2016 4:56 p.m.
Mr_crazydude says... #10
aw, too bad. would have been fun. I guess there is no other land card like this one? I know that there are many lands that can have counters to create mana of any color. Those are included in my deck of course, but is there another creature land that can have them (in the commander colors ofc)?
November 7, 2016 7:04 p.m.
Any land can have +1/+1 counters, but the only ones that normally have them are the ravine and Llanowar Reborn, which does not animate itself. Otherwise just spells that give counters would be the next best option.
November 7, 2016 8:48 p.m.
If you're still looking for this effect still I'd suggest Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper or some other commander playable awaken effect.
sonnet666 says... Accepted answer #1
Commander deck construction rules state that you cannot include any card that contains a colored mana symbol in it's rules text that is outside your commander's color identity.
Since Raging Ravine has the ability, ": Add or to your mana pool," it can't be included.
November 6, 2016 5:07 p.m.