How do you choose how many lands to put into a deck?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Dec. 8, 2014, 10:48 p.m. by mtgirem
Title
I've been testing a number of them and no matter what amount of lands I settle on, it feels like I never get lands when testing on this site. Then when I bump it to 1 more land I get opening hands with 5-6 lands.
I just have a really hard time conceptualizing how many to have in general. Let's just say 2 colors and average card cost about 3.5-4,
Ohthenoises says... #6
38 lands, but you can remove 1 land for every 2 mana rocks.
December 8, 2014 11:15 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #7
I'd say about 36 lands, and about 3-5 mana rocks.
December 8, 2014 11:16 p.m.
Depends on the deck, to be honest. In something like Sasaya, Orochi Ascendant or Azusa, Lost but Seeking or even Omnath, Locus of Mana, you'd run a lot more lands than your average deck. I can imagine decks where fewer lands might be better, but can't think of any off the top of my head. 36-37 is usually a good number.
Also, 1, the deck tester isn't perfect, so using it as your basis for how many lands to run will be similarly imperfect; and 2, no matter how many lands you're running,0-2 land openers can happen, and 6-7 land openers can happen (that's called randomness).
December 8, 2014 11:19 p.m.
FalkensteinAZ says... #9
40 lands in a 100 card deck = 24 in a 60 card deck. A larger deck means more variance. It really depends on your curve and what you need to be able to cast by a particular turn.
A lot of casual EDH players go land light because of casual mulligans and a slower game pace, meaning hitting your curve is not as important, and it slightly improves your late-game draws. Some decks also play a lot of artifact mana, which you can count as 0.5 lands for the total.
I've found the TO playtester to be a bit janky at times when running a lot of basics, but I think 40 lands is a good starting point. Personally, I figure out what kind of curve I need to hit, make an educated guess based on that info, then playtest a lot with physical cards and real shuffling, and adjust from there based on results, sometimes adjusting spells to achieve the deck's curve goals too.
December 8, 2014 11:21 p.m.
ThisIsBullshit says... #10
To illustrate this example i run a modern burn deck with 20 lands and I've gotten hands of seven lands and hands of 1 drops with no mana.
Randomness.
December 8, 2014 11:21 p.m.
Is say use around 35-40 and if you have consistently higher mana costs use more lands and also more rocks than if you have low mana costs/ramp.
December 8, 2014 11:33 p.m.
I get that it's randomness. Maybe my luck is just garbage. I mean every time I decide on say 37 lands I get these 0-1 openings for 5-6-7 trials in a row then as soon as I make it 38 lands I get 5-6 land openings with lands every subsequent draw.
December 8, 2014 11:51 p.m.
GhostChieftain says... #13
I usually start at 2/5 of my deck size (40 in edh) and mess with it from there based on how my curve goes and what exactly I plan on doing with it. Just playtest a bunch and take out as needed
December 9, 2014 12:08 a.m.
It's kinda the same rule As a 60 card deck. 40% is optimum, but can be adjusted based on curve and rocks. I'd recommend not going less than 33 though, you want to see roughly 2 lands in your opening hand.
December 9, 2014 12:12 a.m.
BreadManDan says... #16
Depends on the deck, the cost of the commander, the amount of mana ramp, the amount of mana rocks. High cost commander, may need more mana than a deck with a lower cost commander. Especially when that commander gets hated on a lot. Most of mine run approximately 36, yet Animar has like 33. Just depends on playtesting, actual play testing, and what you are comfortable with.
December 9, 2014 1:48 a.m.
just out of curiosity, what browser are you playtesting on?
December 9, 2014 2:47 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #18
Somewhere between 34 and 38 for most edh decks depending on mana curve. EDH decks that like lands can have even more, for example: 'This Is My Hammer. You Are My Anvil.' has 44.
December 9, 2014 8:22 a.m.
Cobthecobbler says... #19
I usually start at 37 lands and remove 1 land every other piece of ramp I have. So if I have Nature's Lore, Skyshroud Claim, Arbor Elf, Llanowar Elves, Chromatic Lantern, Lotus Bloom and Sol Ring, I would run 34 lands. I wouldn't go to 33 unless I was also running mana doublers (Extraplanar Lens, Gauntlet of Power), or just higher impact cards that help mana, such as Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger and Gilded Lotus. And even then, I might decide not to remove another land because that's all late game ramp that depends on the early game ramp to get there.
You should get as much play testing in as you can, adding or removing one basic land at a time, or other lands you do/dont like.
December 9, 2014 10:10 a.m.
I get that it's randomness. Maybe my luck is just garbage. I mean every time I decide on say 37 lands I get these 0-1 openings for 5-6-7 trials in a row then as soon as I make it 38 lands I get 5-6 land openings with lands every subsequent draw.
Unless you intend to goldfish hundreds, if not thousands of games, these numbers are ultimately meaningless. You're not even close to the number of reps needed for the sample size to smooth out the statistics.
December 9, 2014 10:12 a.m.
Cobthecobbler says... #21
Also, EDH decks are hard to shuffle. If you don't end up shuffling properly, your lands can still be bunched up somewhere in your deck, which could attribute to your low land to nonland ratios for opening hands.
When I clean up my games I take the pile of what I had on the field, shuffle it into my hand, then that into my graveyard, and then that into half of my deck. Then I put it down, shuffle the remaining half, then kind of shuffle the bulk of it in parts. It really helps combat this problem.
December 9, 2014 10:18 a.m.
EDH is mostly just preference. Usually you don't want to be any less than 33. I play 34 almost exclusively, and I'm constantly told it isn't enough, but it works for me. Most people run somewhere between 35 and 42. It's just the general consensus. I don't think its based the cmc ratio or anything like that. Its just a good number and it works.
December 9, 2014 10:46 a.m.
the playtester on this site is also not all that great. It can't simulate a real life draw.
December 9, 2014 10:47 a.m.
I start with around 38 and stick there unless I have a driving need to. I will also run multiple mana rocks in a deck with 38 lands but my EDH decks tend to supply me with lots of gas as card draw is essential in a game as varied as EDH. I also run tight to my commander 9 times out of 10 so I never have a problem with flood as I always have a card I want to play. My top 4 commander decks at current are Omnath, Ruhan, Animar, and a 5c Progenitus that really is a 5c Superfriends. In each of them I want as much mana as I can get. Omnath does wonky things with mana any way and if I'm not casting a spell in that deck it's ok as the mana just goes into the pool. Ruhan is all about getting him and my Sunforger on the table by turn 4 so mana and accelerators is 50-55% of the deck. The rest is the Sunforger package and ways to find stuff. Animar draws lots of cards and plays lots of beefy creatures so more lands are always better. I also almost always need to replay my Animar as he gets cleared off the table rather rapidly in my circle as people don't want me to get started as he is hard to stop. 5c Superfriends needs high land counts to be able to wipe the board and load up a threat at the same time so there are often times I draw 6 land hands and snap keep knowing that I'll wipe things up and stabilize. Ultimately you could go a lot worse than 38 lands but that is really a good starting point. Ultimately, nothing can stop the flood or the screw, it's just a part of the game, but ask yourself which is worse.
ThisIsBullshit says... #2
For an EDH deck, usually figure 33-37. If you're running lots of ramp, then you can probably get away with closer to 33. If you're not running ramp (I don't know why you wouldn't run at least a little), or have a high mana curve, it's best to be closer to 37.
Also, this is a tester. It's not perfect.
December 8, 2014 10:51 p.m.