Is the New Heliod Justified in My Decks?
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on April 14, 2023, 11:16 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
Heliod, the Radiant Dawn Flip is quite nice, since he can return an enchantment to his controller's hand, and then become a creature with the same ability as Vedalken Orrery and Leyline of Anticipation, so I am contemplating putting him into my EDH decks that contain blue and white, but I am not certain if those decks contains a sufficient number of enchantments to justify him being included in them, since costs 4 mana to summon and then another 4 before he provides his additional benefit.
I am contemplating putting the new Heliod into these four decks, but I am not certain if each of those decks contains a sufficient number of enchantments to justify me putting him into those decks.
What does everyone else say about this subject? Should I put Heliod, the Radiant Dawn Flip into those decks?
GodzSoldier says... #3
I wouldn't treat this as a Leyline. This card you should either be abusing for it's front, or back. These new double cards can rarely be abused for both. And that's fine. The front is fine if you only have a few enchantment but only if said enchantments are among your best in the deck, and you know opponents will remove them the second they get the chance. Like ryhsitic study or even an omniscience. The back obviously being completely different, possibly made for decks like Kwain, Itinerant Meddler or other wheel or group hug decks. I don't know what enchantment decks are in Azorius, since most top enchantments decks are Selesnya.
April 15, 2023 12:03 a.m.
griffstick says... #4
Colorless spells is where this deck can shine and take advantage of this ability best. There are WAY more payoffs for artifacts in these colors than there are enchantments.
Now if you want to go with enchantments then focus on the ones with only one pip in its cost. Cards like Oblivion Ring can cost only or Quarantine Field could Exile 4 things for 0 mana. Your choice.
The deck should be able to cast 7, 8, 9, or more spells with just Howling Mine going off on your turn. That's good in all, but it gives everything flash. So effect that make everyone draw card on every turn is key. Otherworld Atlas and/or Temple Bell combined with and Unwinding Clock effect and boom! Engine is engaged and your in business to storm off on everyone's turn. Focus on making your spells (in a 4 player game) costing less each turn. With enough cards like Howling Mine for control and cards like Time Reversal for storm.
April 15, 2023 12:17 a.m. Edited.
DemonDragonJ says... #5
griffstick, GodzSoldier, I do not believe that any of the decks that I mentioned above can properly use Heliod, the Radiant Dawn Flip, so I shall not put him into those decks.
April 15, 2023 8:10 a.m.
I used to run Auramancer in a deck that ran a bunch of Auras that add a huge amount of power, I quickly had to pull it because it's ability is so timing sensitive that it usually was a worse Bear. I think you need TONS of enchantments, and they need to be the only way your deck wins or that ability is not very helpful.
The flip side is a lot more interesting, it seems good in a highly interactive deck that plays mostly at instant speed, you can also play Eldrazi for cheaper, fueled with all of the symmetrical card draw you can find (there is a fair bit, including lands). I suspect either way you want this as your Commander, not as much in the 99. Just had a thought, once it's flipped (pretty steep cost in Azorius) you do have one really good thing, all of your 2 or 3 mana rocks suddenly become mana positive? That seems at least neat, I'm not sure it really matters, but I like the idea of having a free Thran Dynamo now and then, I guess if you've got enough card draw you can snowball out of control pretty badly? Azorius Storm is a weird place to be thinking about.
Last (and weirdest) thought, you can run Heliod with Stax I guess, so you can overcome things like Thalia/Thorn of Amethyst/Trinisphere. You cast at a discount while everyone else has to pay 9 for an Ad Naus you can just counter for U.
April 15, 2023 8:27 a.m.
Lets look at this card realistically the ceiling of the card can be crazy but only if you specifically build around his flip and that means as your commander.
Can we agree that the ceiling is good to great if built around him as a commander.
The front side of the card is solid in enchantress decks example would be Tuvasa the Sunlit decks now is the 4 cmc 4/4 body that gets back an enchantment better than say another 4 cmc card in the deck then yes put that in because that alone makes it worth it then if you need more later and you can sink mana then you can get the other side no the card make sense in the deck because the front side matters.
Now the issue with decks that don't really care about the front side ok you deployed a 4 cmc card that does nothing it is just a 4 cmc 4/4 oh and it can be removed. You di dnot advance your game plan you can't use the flash yet and if you had the mana to flip 8 you could have just played leyline had mana open to impact the game.
Yes you reduced by 1 colorless mana for draws but if you are not in a high powered meta that draws tons of cards and wheels what did you just spend 8 mana and 2 life for how does that win you any games the opportunity cost is terrible. The floor of the card is terrible really terrible if you are not leveraging the backside as a commander od the front side in another deck.
The answer is not worth it 99% of the time
griffstick says... #2
I wouldn't worry about enchantments being returned from the graveyard. His flip side is where your focus needs to be. Making spells you cast, in a 4 player edh game cost less to cast for each opponent who has drawn a card this turn is where the power is. AND!!! Giving all your spells flash.
Azorius storm/Control
April 14, 2023 11:58 p.m.