Hellrider v.s Witchbane Orb
Asked by Minousmancer 13 years ago
Does Hellrider technically not 'Target' the player? And does that mean Witchbane Orb can't protect you against Hellrider?
GoblinsInc says... #2
Things that lack the word "target" in their oracle text or in the rules relating to them do not target (primarily things like aura spells and the equip ability fall under the rules section). Hellrider's ability does not target in any way.
March 28, 2012 10:03 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #3
Same thing happens with Engulfing Slagwurm so it kills anything that blocks him or whatever he blocks even if it has protection.
March 28, 2012 10:10 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #5
edit: he can't block protection however if he blocked something that was given protection after blockers were declared in response to the slagwurm trigger it would still kill said attacker.
March 28, 2012 10:21 p.m.
Minousmancer says... #6
I meant that in reference to Hellrider it makes sense with Engulfing Slagwurm.
March 28, 2012 10:43 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #7
yea I was just correcting my statement so no one could say i was wrong lol.
March 28, 2012 10:45 p.m.
Minousmancer says... #8
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
So then if Witchbane Orb is useless against Hellrider does only leave Spellskite?
March 28, 2012 10:48 p.m.
Spellskite is also useless against Hellrider because you can't redirect what doesn't target.
March 28, 2012 11:33 p.m.
Or I suppose it could also be because Hellrider's ability only does damage to a player and Spellskite is not a player.
March 28, 2012 11:34 p.m.
GoblinsInc says... #11
You could redirect the damage from the player to a creature, that's not an issue. It just isn't doable with spellskite for the reason mentioned before (that hellrider's ability has no targets, so spellskite can't play with it. Except if you want a way to lose life I guess)
March 29, 2012 1:27 a.m.
Hellrider is not a Literal curse. Witchbane ONLY stops curses. Since Hellrider is not a curse, and since Witchbane only stops curses, then witchbane can't stop Hellrider, because its not a curse.
March 29, 2012 6:35 a.m.
@mikedh1 Witchbane Orb also grants the player hexproof, which affects more than curses.
March 29, 2012 8:36 a.m.
But Hexproof, applies to just creatures, not players, therefore hexproof and getting rid of curses, would not stop a card like a Hellrider, from doing damage to a player, because they don't target a creature, and because they are not a curse.
So witchbane's hexproof, and getting rid of curses, does not apply here.
Also I didn't see the part about hexproof. I was just skimming over witchbane's card text, and I didn't see anything that would stop Hellrider, or any other card like hellrider, from doing damage to a player.
March 29, 2012 8:47 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #15
Hexproof can and does apply to players, and Witchbane Orb specifically says "You have hexproof". It does not make your creatures hexproof.
March 29, 2012 9:05 a.m.
114.9a Just because an object or player is being affected by a spell or ability doesn't make that object or player a target of that spell or ability. Unless that object or player is identified by the word "target" in the text of that spell or ability, or the rule for that keyword ability, it's not a target.
Hellrider never uses the word 'target', so it will go through Hexproof.
March 29, 2012 10:29 a.m.
@GoblinsInc "You could redirect the damage from the player to a creature, that's not an issue. It just isn't doable with spellskite for the reason mentioned before (that hellrider's ability has no targets, so spellskite can't play with it. Except if you want a way to lose life I guess)" This is true, however Spellskite cannot redirect effects that he is not a legal target for, so even if Hellrider said inflict 1 damage to target player for each attacking creature Spellskite would still be unable to redirect this damage as it is not a legal target of "Player"
March 29, 2012 12:50 p.m.
moz.the.blessed says... #18
mikedh1 player can't has hexproof <-- LOL. How can WotC print something in a card that can't be done? that's simply absurd.
March 29, 2012 2:23 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #19
Actually moz there is a rule that says if the card tells you to have something happen that doesn't normally happen you go by what the cards say. Forget the number and can't look it up on my phone lol
March 29, 2012 2:31 p.m.
moz.the.blessed says... #20
Ohthenoises i say "can't be done" not "can't normally be done" LOL.
i mean, why if the printed card says player has hexproof, then it can't be done. More spesifically, card text overrides normal rules.
March 29, 2012 2:35 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #21
I know I was playing devil's advocate lol. Also, one of the leylines from back in zendikar block gave the player hexproof too (just not in the keyword ability sense)
March 29, 2012 2:38 p.m.
moz.the.blessed says... #22
Ohthenoises ALRIGHT. that's mean, i don't trap into your Devil's Play? LOL (just find a card to say my words)
March 29, 2012 2:40 p.m.
moz.the.blessed says... #23
Ohthenoises ALRIGHT. that's mean, i don't trap into your Devil's Play? LOL (just find a card to say my words)
March 29, 2012 2:40 p.m.
GoblinsInc says... #24
@GoblinsInc "You could redirect the damage from the player to a creature, that's not an issue. It just isn't doable with spellskite for the reason mentioned before (that hellrider's ability has no targets, so spellskite can't play with it. Except if you want a way to lose life I guess)" This is true, however Spellskite cannot redirect effects that he is not a legal target for, so even if Hellrider said inflict 1 damage to target player for each attacking creature Spellskite would still be unable to redirect this damage as it is not a legal target of "Player"I should have been more clear. I was writing this meaning that you could use something like captain's maneuver to redirect damage from Hellrider's ability. Not that spellskite could be targetted by something which targets players. The original post I was responding to felt to me like it implied there was no way to redirect the damage "because it was damage to a player, not a creature"
March 29, 2012 2:47 p.m.
Minousmancer says... #25
At, mikedh1 Witchbane Orb's Second line reads "You have hexproof." So spells like: Tribute to Hunger, Praetor's Grasp, Memoricide, Distress, Mind Rot, Monomania, Sorin's Vengeance, almost all Mill i.e Increasing Confusion, being immune to Burning Vengeance & Brimstone Volley is pretty sweet, No, I won't take that Bump in the Night thank you very much!
March 29, 2012 3:09 p.m.
Tbh of all the cards you listed, I'd gladly take that Bump in the Night over a Memoricide or w/e ;)
March 29, 2012 6:26 p.m.
Minousmancer says... #27
I was just listing card that target player, I could have put Devil's Play/Red Sun's Zenith in it's place.
March 29, 2012 6:48 p.m.
yeah I get it, it was just a little funny that you'd end the list with probably the least powerful card on there. (ok, 3 life for 1 mana is pretty sweet, but that flashback cost is just laughable ;) )
March 29, 2012 6:58 p.m.
Minousmancer says... #29
When designing a deck, I never focus on a cards second ability(if it has one). I want the deck to work and work awesomely and if the second ability works, great but I'm not going to rely on it. There has only been five cards which the second ability is equal to the first and that is the Sun's Zeniths. Why would I ever need four of the Blue or White ones, more than three in a Red deck over kill I have better things to fill the slots of Black with than more than two or three lastly if i need more than three in Green, I need to rethink how I build decks.
Ryukashin says... Accepted answer #1
Hellrider
's effect doesn't target, it is simply stating which player is receiving the effect damage, so no Witchbane Orb
will not protect against Hellrider
.
March 28, 2012 9:59 p.m.