DERPLINGSUPREME - I'm sorry if I seemed pissed off, I wasn't. In retrospect, you were perfectly justified to ask me to defend my choices and it was unreasonable of me to think that you had some vendetta against me for doing so.

It's also good that we've stated our assumptions because it sounds like we're talking about very different metas. I treat most of the commanders on this list as being all very competitive and optimized and don't really account for more casual environments, even for the lower tiers. This is a dangerous mentality and can lead to slippery slope arguments like "Lord of Tresserhorn should be a higher tier because you can just build a Grixis storm deck with him at the commander, it won't be as good as Jeleva but it'll still be broken". For this reason, I don't value generals whose only advantage is their color identity (like Cromat, Atogatog, etc.) and look at the abilities they have and how well those abilities lend themselves to an optimized strategy in their color identity. In Rayne's case, although it's not an amazing ability by any means, it's good enough that she doesn't deserve to be lumped in with Hakim, Loreweaver.

Also, even in a casual meta, I still wouldn't let people get to obscene amounts of mana. I run Strip Mine in all my casual decks partly because of Glacial Chasm but also because of stuff like Cabal Coffers or Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. I just think of it like any other spot removal or a board wipe - If your opponent has a Consecrated Sphinx, you kill it before they get a huge advantage; If your opponent has two dozen creatures, you kill them before they kill you; If your opponent is producing 10+ mana before turn 6, you attack their manabase before they start dropping big stuff.

And seriously, why aren't Tromokratis and Lorthos tier 5? I'm not going to stop bringing this up.

DERPLINGSUPREME - I'm sorry if I seemed pissed off, I wasn't. In retrospect, you were perfectly justified to ask me to defend my choices and it was unreasonable of me to think that you had some vendetta against me for doing so.

It's also good that we've stated our assumptions because it sounds like we're talking about very different metas. I treat most of the commanders on this list as being all very competitive and optimized and don't really account for more casual environments, even for the lower tiers. This is a dangerous mentality and can lead to slippery slope arguments like "Lord of Tresserhorn should be a higher tier because you can just build a Grixis storm deck with him at the commander, it won't be as good as Jeleva but it'll still be broken". For this reason, I don't value generals whose only advantage is their color identity (like Cromat, Atogatog, etc.) and look at the abilities they have and how well those abilities lend themselves to an optimized strategy in their color identity. In Rayne's case, although it's not an amazing ability by any means, it's good enough that she doesn't deserve to be lumped in with Hakim, Loreweaver.

Also, even in a casual meta, I still wouldn't let people get to obscene amounts of mana. I run Strip Mine in all my casual decks partly because of Glacial Chasm but also because of stuff like Cabal Coffers or Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. I just think of it like any other spot removal or a board wipe - If your opponent has a Consecrated Sphinx, you kill it before they get a huge advantage; If your opponent has two dozen creatures, you kill them before they kill you; If your opponent is producing 10+ mana before turn 6, you attack their manabase before they start dropping big stuff.

And seriously, why aren't Tromokratis and Lorthos tier 5? I'm not going to stop bringing this up.

Lilbrudder: The way I see it, both decks are running many of the same cards. Low cost, evasive creatures and mana ramp.

This list is based on Multiplayer right? In a multiplayer game, Ezuri and Edric will be attacking mutual opponents as long as Edric is on the field. Ezuri should be drawing card for card with Edric.

Ezuri doesn't miss much if an opponent isn't playing Edric, and he should still combo out fast.

Once Ezuri gets online, he gains experience counters and he should be able to combo out. Edric being on the field will only help Ezuri get stuff out faster, thus faster experience and larger combos sooner.

I'm just missing what Edric does that Ezuri doesn't. I just see more Win Cons in Ezuri.

@Gates88 I think Tromo and lorthos are tier 4 b/c tromo has a really good way of having evasion which usually makes him unblockable which is scary in commander with something that big, and lorthos b/c the moment you get down to 2 players you can lock someone's lands forever. or their creatures, and a lot more with Strionic Resonator.

@iAzire you get to play 1 mana 1/1s all day up into lab maniac, I think? that's the only way I'm thinking of it and I'm way too tired to google it.

Some generals feed off other decks like a remora so perhaps edric has helped you win in the past, but that is irrelvant to thier relative tier placements. Ezuri is worse than edric for the following reasons:

1) Both decks rely upon their commander so Ezuri costing 1 more means he is at least turn slower EVERY game. So a good Edric player can almost always have a counterspell ready to shut down Ezuri before he starts making trouble.

2) Ezuri may run some of the same creatures as edric but ezuri encourages you to wait off on playing your little creatures until after you play him. This is a massive drawback. Edric can theoretically play 3 creatures on turn 1-2 then play Edric on turn 3 and draw 3 cards that turn. Ezuri on the other hand is lucky to be played on turn 3. Then he has to survive a full turn cycle before you get ANY value out of him.

3) Edric encourages your opponents to attack eachother rather than you, which allows you to progress your gameplan more unchecked.

4) The massive card advantage engine that is Edric, allows you to play reactive control and protect your board from green's worst enemy...the dreaded board wipe. While Ezuri can run countermagic, it does not work as well since he will almost always have less cards to work with.

I'll stop here but there are more advantages. In a tier 2/3 environment Ezuri has time to get his draw engines going and overhwelm the board, but against tier 1 decks he is a turn or two too slow getting out of the gate. Edric does not have this problem. Edric is a weaker tier 1 deck Ezuri is a weak tier 2/strong tier 3 deck. The difference between the two is not huge but it is significant.

What about Rhys the Redeemed?

The one thing that Ezuri has going for him is the incredibly easy infinite turns combo. Green to tutor out Sage of Hours and U to protect it. It's slower than edric, granted, but it's incredibly easy to set up.

And incredibly easy to disrupt. :/

Hence why I said "U to protect it" Dispel, Force of Will, etc.

Which tier Queen Marchesa is going to be?

Prolly tier 3. Maybe tier 4.

It gives Mardu an actual token commander which is rare. Also, she provides a draw effect if you can protect yourself from being hit.

Mardu token spam? Elspeths, sorins, and purphoros oh my?

High tier 3 I think. I for one am excited to build a tier 3-level mardu pillow fort/control deck around her. Imagine her plus Spirit of the Labyrinth xD

Or I could go tier 4 to purposely get a weaker deck based around forcing opponents to attack each other. Gaud happens to be good for that actually!

Are you sure not tier 5? You only get tokens when an opponent is the monarch. Is there consistent ways to keep your opponent monarch? If not she's tier 5.

@Podkomorka: Being the Monarch gives you an extra card draw during your endstep, meaning you're either getting one extra card per turn cycle, or an opponent is getting an extra card while you get a 1/1 with deathtouch.

Tier 3 or 4 sounds fair for Newchesa.

Drana should be teir 2 or 3 (2 for 1 on 1 and 3 for multiplayer) She is an excellent voltron/control general!

@thegigibeast: Shouldn't Dralnu have been moved up to Tier 3 in the last update?

@Dr.Necro this list is just for multiplayer and it's generally agreed that voltron strategies are weak in multiplayer.

I think the real question for Marchessa is the direction to go.

I'm immediately drawn to a token/pillow fort blend.

Having out a purphorous de-incentiveizes the table to take the crown, not by a lot mind you but still. Building off of that elspeth and Soren's token making abilities could make for an interesting deck.

Also, making tokens is an interesting way to beat Stax effects.

@Podkomorka Then she should be moved to tier three since she is generally better then the other commanders in her tier and she is very flexible

@Podkomorka Then she should be moved to tier three since she is generally better then the other commanders in her tier and she is very flexible

There is now a detailed, optimized primer for Food Chain General Tazri written by BigLupu:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/5c-fc-tazri/

Sorry, that was the wrong link. Here's the correct one:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/food-chain-tazri/

So how fast do you think that the new Emrakul will be banned as a commander if it is banned at all? I'm thinking in either two banning or not at all.

I don't think The Promised End is good/oppressive enough to be banned. Mindslaver on a stick is nice, but I'd still rather old Kozilek or Karn as my colourless commander.