- 1x Arid Mesa
- 1x Bayou
- 1x Bloodstained Mire
- 1x Breeding Pool
- 1x City of Brass
- 1x Command Tower
- 1x Flooded Strand
- 1x Forbidden Orchard
- 1x Forest
- 1x Gemstone Caverns
- 1x Gemstone Mine
- 1x Llanowar Wastes
- 1x Mana Confluence
- 1x Marsh Flats
- 1x Misty Rainforest
- 1x Overgrown Tomb
- 1x Polluted Delta
- 1x Savannah
- 1x Scalding Tarn
- 1x Tarnished Citadel
- 1x Tropical Island
- 1x Tundra
- 1x Underground Sea
- 1x Verdant Catacombs
- 1x Watery Grave
- 1x Windswept Heath
- 1x Wooded Foothills
- 1x Yavimaya Coast
- 1x Abrupt Decay
- 1x Ad Nauseam
- 1x Brainstorm
- 1x Chain of Vapor
- 1x Culling the Weak
- 1x Dark Ritual
- 1x Delay
- 1x Demonic Consultation
- 1x Dispel
- 1x Enlightened Tutor
- 1x Fire Covenant
- 1x Flusterstorm
- 1x Force of Will
- 1x Lim-Dul's Vault
- 1x Mana Drain
- 1x Mental Misstep
- 1x Mystical Tutor
- 1x Nature's Claim
- 1x Noxious Revival
- 1x Pact of Negation
- 1x Plunge into Darkness
- 1x Silence
- 1x Spell Pierce
- 1x Swan Song
- 1x Tainted Pact
- 1x Vampiric Tutor
- 1x Arbor Elf
- 1x Avacyn's Pilgrim
- 1x Birds of Paradise
- 1x Boreal Druid
- 1x Containment Priest
- 1x Dark Confidant
- 1x Deathrite Shaman
- 1x Elves of Deep Shadow
- 1x Elvish Mystic
- 1x Elvish Spirit Guide
- 1x Eternal Scourge
- 1x Fyndhorn Elves
- 1x Gilded Drake
- 1x Hagra Diabolist
- 1x Halimar Excavator
- 1x Kalastria Healer
- 1x Laboratory Maniac
- 1x Llanowar Elves
- 1x Misthollow Griffin
- 1x Noble Hierarch
- 1x Riftsweeper
- 1x Wall of Roots
Comments View Archive
There's no hard and fast rule, but you usually want to make your second land drop on turn 2. You'd ideally see 2 lands, a land and a cantrip, a land and a dork, or some other way to draw a bunch of cards, like a line into Necropotence.
The most important thing is that you want your hand to have a plan and the means (mana) to get there. The rest is flexible.
It's a meta call. If you're facing a bunch of exile, you'd probably want it. Otherwise, pull-from-exile cards are pretty useless, especially if you see them in the early turns.
August 16, 2016 1:48 p.m.
I really love this deck! Could you make a more "budget version" of it or could you explain some changes you would consider to make your deck less expensive?~ +1 & cheers
August 17, 2016 3:10 p.m.
Have you considered Bring to Light? If you pay 3 colors into it it can tutor up and play Food Chain for 5 mana as if you had used Demonic Tutor. It can also tutor up and play CFE creatures or just tutor them to exile if you want. Not sure what I would take out but definitely worth consideration.
August 21, 2016 2:16 p.m.
Never mind didn't realize it couldn't do enchantments. Derp
August 21, 2016 3:16 p.m.
Extremely cool; +1!
September 6, 2016 11:06 p.m.
With 15 (possible forests counting fetches) do you think Orcish Lumberjack would be worth testing? The downside is w/o a forest is a dead card but a R/G lotus could be useful to get the ball rolling. I doubt he could ever find a spot but he's a pet card of mine.
October 3, 2016 7:13 p.m.
This deck is awesome! Finally, I have something to do with my foil General Tazri :)
October 26, 2016 1:09 a.m.
This deck is awesome! Finally, I have something to do with my foil General Tazri :)
October 26, 2016 1:09 a.m.
You may want to consider riftsweeper to protect all the combo pieces from even exile
October 31, 2016 9:14 p.m.
honestly if you take out the abur lands, the timetwister, grim tutor, imperial seal, the moxes/crypt this turns into like a <$200 deck and is still suuuuper good.
December 1, 2016 5:21 p.m.
No blue (currently) in my local meta. Was wondering what to substitute in for Carpet of Flowers
January 1, 2017 12:10 a.m.
Just playtested the list, had a hand with a first turn EoT Tainted Pact. Decided to just go for the food chain, ended up being the third from the bottom card. Even if I could've played it and a CFE creature there was an Elvish Mystic and a land left in my library. This deck is hilariously awesome.
January 9, 2017 2:31 p.m.
Tangerinefox It's usually not correct to go past the third ally; don't forget you can stop whenever you want. Playing a dork or some card selection on turn 1 is also usually better than tutoring for win conditions unless it's clear you have a shot at a turn 2.
The ability to rip through the deck is quite fun, though. ;)
January 9, 2017 3:57 p.m.
I'm curious: what is this weak to? For the decks in your meta, I'm curious what strategies work well against it?
I'm a huge fan of this list. It's a really gorgeously executed combo deck.
January 23, 2017 10:51 a.m.
The best points of attack against this deck are Sphere of Resistance effects (e.g. Grand Arbiter), Rule of Law effects (e.g. Ethersworn Canonist, Arcane Laboratory, Eidolon of Rhetoric), and Abrupt Decay.
The deck is really flexible in what removal you can run. If you're expecting stax, you can board in things like Natural State, Wear//Tear, etc. over anti-interaction cards like Dispel and Flusterstorm. Red Elemental Blast is good in some metas and Misdirection and various Silences are good against Abrupt Decay.
Good meta prediction is always key to tuning your deck effectively.
January 24, 2017 11:31 a.m.
Can you play Day's Undoing instead of Timetwister? It seems like it would be fine if you want a $3 card instead of a $1000 card, or is the "end the turn" clause that damaging?
February 16, 2017 5:53 p.m.
Turn8ScornfulEgotist Play Windfall instead!
Check the budget section of the description for a series of budget builds.
February 17, 2017 5:31 p.m.
Fire Covenant concerns me, not only does it nessitate a red producing land, not a colour present anywhere else, but does the same thing as Toxic Deluge for a great use cost, I do not see the advantage of this card :/
February 22, 2017 7:54 p.m.
Stealthybiscuit It's instant speed and doesn't remove your side of the board, which you want to keep to pay for your Scourge/Griffin after playing Food Chain.
Collectively this means you can wipe the hatebears preventing you from winning, untap, and make a win attempt. Toxic Deluge almost always necessitates passing the turn afterward into other players' combo attempts or playing/recurring more hatebears.
If you're expecting a very hatebear/Yisan-heavy meta, it's reasonable to play Toxic Deluge additionally or instead. Fire Covenant is slightly more difficult to use with a payout that's much more effective at solving the problems that slot usually needs to solve.
February 22, 2017 8:38 p.m.
ShaperSavant that's fair enough, I play in a very heavy creature based meta with both a yisan and Derick deck so deluge is more effective for me
February 23, 2017 5:32 a.m.
So, I think I'm missing something, Necropotence exiles the cards face down so, to the best of my knowledge, you can't cast a CFE card. Can't find an exact ruling but here's 406.4:
"Face-down cards in exile should be kept in separate piles based on when they were exiled and how they were exiled. If a player is instructed to choose an exiled card, the player may choose a specific face-down card only if the player is allowed to look at that card. Otherwise, he or she may choose a pile of face-down exiled cards, and then a card is chosen at random from within that pile. If choosing such a card is part of casting a spell or activating an ability, the chosen card isnt revealed until after that cost is fully paid."
February 27, 2017 3:34 p.m.
Dunadain The relevant clause is "Whenever you discard a card, exile that card from your graveyard." When you pitch a CFE it creates a trigger that exiles it, meaning you don't have to hold it in your hand after a Necro sculpt. To be really clear: you do still have to pass the turn after resolving Necro.
February 27, 2017 3:45 p.m.
Dunadain 406.3. Exiled cards are, by default, kept face up and may be examined by any player at any time. Cards "exiled face down" can't be examined by any player except when instructions allow it.
March 2, 2017 5:39 a.m.
Thanks, so your saying, if you draw CFE creature off of Necropetence and your hand size is above 7 you can discard it during the cleanup step. Makes sense, I thought you meant exiling off the first ability.
March 2, 2017 2:03 p.m.
Hey ShaperSavant .What role does the Stomping Ground provide in the $420 build. Is it just for the bloodstained mire? + a different name for tainted pact.
I am building the $420 build. I have a Wheel of Fortune lying around. Would I need to tweak the mana base if I do decide to slot it in? Thanks.
March 3, 2017 7:43 p.m.
do you think you could slot in laboratory maniac to help with the possibility of exiling your entire deck?
March 15, 2017 10:37 p.m.
ashrielx Gives you a fetchable red source for Fire Covenant and turns red fetches into a green source. Wheel of Fortune is definitely a viable inclusion if you add fetchable red sources (namely Steam Vents and Stomping Ground if you don't have duals).
firemaker282 It's the best plan B you can add to the deck, but it doesn't contribute to plan A.
March 16, 2017 1:04 a.m.
Curious, but with the high density of cantrips and tutor options, and including the natural synergy with the exile tutors, has Laboratory Maniac been considered? It seems like a natural include and adds a secondary win condition, albeit fairly vulnerable since it needs to live to see a draw trigger.
March 20, 2017 9:30 a.m.
dang, now I need to make a deck using that as plan A...
I like the idea though, as a 3 drop he can be transmuted for and is easily played.
March 20, 2017 10:32 a.m.
April 6, 2017 2:30 a.m.
Both cost red, which you want to avoid in the deck. Dreadbore is only really good against teferi, and even then it's 2 cost sorcery speed removal. Path is playable, and terminate is just extremely weak considering it's just 1 creature. Sure, single creatures can ruin a gameplan, but it's more likely that an artifact is going to be sitting there, shitting on your day. Fire covenant to wipe out everything eot and then untap and win is best
April 8, 2017 11:22 a.m.
entheogeneral I don't think you understand the deck; give the description a read.
April 9, 2017 12:13 a.m.
PrestonShilling I like Misdirection, but the downside of Path is too much. The red is unfortunately too difficult, and I need my removal to be extremely flexible if it costs 2 mana.
April 9, 2017 12:14 a.m.
It's pretty clear ShaperSavant doesn't understand how this deck works. Where do you think the allies go to sleep when it's not your turn? Maybe the allies just mill around the battlefield, with no sleep, no place for to encamp -- you hoping they'll be fresh come upkeep. Delusions, Shaper. Vagaries of a Food Chain player trying desperately to justify the genocide of elf, human, and ally all so they can feed a nihilistic dog-eat-dog worldview in which only the strongest survive.
April 26, 2017 5:23 a.m.
Why doesn't the deck run Torrent Elemental? I would think the deck would want as many CFE creatures as it can, but then it's missing this last one. Is it too expensive, or does the deck simply not need more redundancy?
April 29, 2017 11:35 a.m.
You can't pay for Torrent Elemental's activated ability with Food Chain mana.
April 29, 2017 1:28 p.m.
First off, love the list. A few questions minor questions:
Why do you run Hagra Diabolist alongside Kalastria Healer and Halimar Excavator? While it gives you more redundancy on your win conditions, you're alredy running Pull from Eternity and Riftsweeper as contingency cards. Is it just to provide more of a failsafe with Tainted Pact and Demonic Consultation?
Do you find you have a land to pitch with Mox Diamond consistently enough with 29 lands?
How has Laboratory Maniac been going? I appreciate that it's a new addition to the deck.
May 7, 2017 8:11 p.m.
Hagra Diabolist: Having a third ally increases the odds of having successful Tainted Pact / Consultation. I would not be willing to drop one. (Also, not running Pull From Eternity -- would consider it if I was playing an a heavy exile meta.)
Mox Diamond: It's very rarely dead in hand. If anything, I'd be looking to drop another land from the deck, as I'm finding over-abundance.
Laboratory Maniac: It's a reasonably solid backup plan, but not 100% necessary. It gets around certain stax (particularly, Rule of Law) and can steal the game in ways that people don't expect.
May 8, 2017 1:41 a.m.
May 20, 2017 6:37 p.m.
I think Altar of the Brood may warrant a spot in the list as another win con alongside the allies. win without ever having to cast tazri. it has worked out very well for me thus far. infinite eternal scourge etb is pretty cool.also i like Culling the Weak for another dark rit. definitely helps get there
May 28, 2017 11:58 a.m.
Thoughts on Vexing Shusher for protection for food chain or other ad naus...ive seen it used to great extent on fcprosh
June 4, 2017 2:50 p.m.
Shaper, do you feel comfortable with the change to 28 lands? What mulligan system do you use?
July 18, 2017 4:44 a.m.
Frank_Glascock I've been fine with it; I'm on Vancouver. It's ont he greedy side of optimal: 28-29 is the sweet spot. If I was to put another land in it would not be Urborg.
July 18, 2017 11:17 a.m.
Ancient Tomb was in for a while. It ended up getting cut because of how color hungry the deck is. It didn't feel advantageous to drop before the third land drop and when paired with the colorless rocks it felt like excessive useless colorless. If I was going to play another land it would probably be Scrubland or Exotic Orchard.
July 18, 2017 9:16 p.m.
July 20, 2017 9:21 p.m.
Sorry Shaper, I rechecked the date of those comments. They were two months ago.
July 20, 2017 10:19 p.m.
Frank_Glascock Daze and REB aren't right for my metagame just now, but they're viable options if other removal isn't cutting it. Negate is definitely closest to the chopping block. I actually play Delay in that slot much more often than Negate; I'll update the list to reflect that.
July 21, 2017 12:02 a.m.
How does this beat Praetor's Grasp? That is if it resolves.
July 22, 2017 1:08 p.m.
313Gamer Laboratory Maniac + Demonic Consultation + draw.
July 22, 2017 5:06 p.m.
So this is probably a really dumb question.. but is there a reason for Yavimaya Coast?
July 24, 2017 4:15 p.m.
Keeshe I play the UG and BG pains, because the access to G + (U/B) is more valuable than the other lands I could play in those slots. The ones it competes with for slot are Ancient Tomb, Exotic Orchard, Scrubland; I'd rather Yavimaya Coast than any of those.
July 25, 2017 3:12 p.m.
August 4, 2017 5:15 a.m.
Hipparchos It's the backup plan if Food Chain or all the Allies/Sweeper are exiled. It's also for winning through a board too staxed up with multiple Sphere or Rule of Law or enchantment removal: play LabMan, Consultation/Pact to exile Library end-of-turn/upkeep, win on draw step.
August 4, 2017 10:47 a.m.
So what would you cut for Laboratory Maniac in the $420 Budget Build?
August 6, 2017 5:42 a.m.
ShaperSavant I want to get into cEDH and this deck is prefect to start with. So good job on this primer and its budget versions. :) I will buy the $420-Build and slowly upgrade from there.
My first question is, are there any changes you would make since the budget version exists for several months now? And what are the first minor upgrades to do? I'd cut Sterling Grove for Laboratory Maniac (as a Plan B), Divining Witch for Dark Confidant and the maybe put in Containment Priest too (not sure which card to swap with). I'd be happy to get a guideline. :D
August 6, 2017 6:37 a.m.
Hipparchos LabMan, Culling the Weak, Containment Priest (if you're facing Hulk) are the big changes. Sylvan Library and Mana Crypt would be the first cards I bought for the 420 build and I'd focus on improving the manabase after that.
August 6, 2017 2 p.m.
ShaperSavant Would you be ok with these changes? Sorry for being annoying. :)
August 6, 2017 2:48 p.m.
Shaper, I see Containment Priest and Gilded Drake are back in the deck at the expense of Negate and Worldly Tutor. Is this a concession to the speed of the new Hermit Druid decks? The reason I ask is it seems you are sacrificing a lot in speed with the removal of Worldly Tutor and protection with the lost of Negate.
August 7, 2017 12:35 a.m.
I don't think FCT needs to make speed concessions to any other deck.
Containment Priest happens to put in a lot of work in some of the paper metas I play in where Hulk/Druid/reanimator is the flavor of the month, and it also happens to work well against Blood Pod and Yisan, which have strong disruption potential against us. I leave it in the general build because of how widely played Hulk happens to be right now while not slowing us down significantly -- it's quite lean for a persistent effect, and flash gives it the blowout potential of a counterspell and makes it very easy to play.
Worldly Tutor is just slow, clunky, narrow, and awful. I don't think the full-power build should play it anymore.
Negate rotates in and out as a flex slot between Gilded Drake and Into the Roil. Gilded Drake happens to be a very efficient way to steal Zur (swinging for FC) and large reanimator threats. You can play whichever one best suits your meta (Negate vs. fast combo; Into the Roil vs. stax; Gilded Drake vs. midrange).
August 7, 2017 2:12 a.m.
Thanks for the quick response! I like Negate as I do not see midrange combo. What do you think of Sigi's Breakfast Hulk? Is it the flavor of the month or does the deck have some staying power to keep itself in the top five decks in the format? I am thinking of making it.
August 7, 2017 3:58 a.m.
I speak on it not having played it outside goldfishes, but having played against it (or a close variant) both in my paper group and online with some frequency. I am inclined to think that it is rather inconsistent, capable of early godhands with more frequency than most decks, and is overall fragile and non-interactive relative to the rest of the cream-of-the-crop. Not peronally my cup of tea, but certainly strong and viable. I think the meta will grow in resilience to the current popularity of Hulk. I'm not much for "top 5" lists, but I don't think it makes mine if I was.
August 7, 2017 4:06 p.m.
ShaperSavant I'm curious, is there also a discord chanel for FCT?
August 8, 2017 9:29 a.m.
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|Date added||1 year|
|Last updated||3 weeks|
This deck is Commander / EDH legal.
|Tokens||1/1 Spirit, 1/1 Bird|
|Folders||EDH Inspiration, Bookmarks, Cool Stuff, Cool EDH Decks, Commander Folder, EDH, edh, edh ideas, Tazri, awesome decks, See all 114|
|Top rank||#3 on 2016-08-24|