What happens when a DFC card copies another DFC card and transforms?

Asked by TakeInventory 1 week ago

Heir of Falkenrath is on the field. The controller activated the ability to transform. Someone Cytoshape s or Mirrorweave s it into another DFC creature, let's say Delver of Secrets

What happens? Does it transform or not? If it does, what creature does it become? Or does it do a weird thing like transforming from Delver into the same Delver because the card is still a copy?

chosenone124 says... #1

Heir (or whatever it is) would still transform.

Let me explain. Double facedness is not a copiable characteristic. You only copy a front face of a card. The fact that a back face exists and that it is Heir to the Night  Flip is unchanged.

"711.5. Only permanents represented by double-faced cards can transform. (See rule 701.26, "Transform.") If a spell or ability instructs a player to transform any permanent that isn't represented by a double-faced card, nothing happens.

Example: A Clone enters the battlefield as a copy of Wildblood Pack (the back face of a double-faced card). The Clone will be a copy of the Wildblood Pack. Because the Clone is itself not a double-faced card, it can't transform."

Because double facedness is not a copiable characteristic, by definition it is not overwritten by copy effects. Therefore the card would be a Delver of Secrets with a transform trigger on the stack. It would transform into Heir to the Night  Flip.

I believe the same would happen even if you Cytoshaped it into a Storm Crow. The transform trigger is already on the stack in this scenario.

September 8, 2017 4:07 a.m.

chosenone124 says... #2

Example: A player casts Cytoshape, causing a Kruin Outlaw (the front face of a double-faced card) to become a copy of Elite Vanguard (a 2/1 Human Soldier creature) until end of turn. The player then casts Moonmist, which reads, in part, "Transform all Humans." Because the copy of Elite Vanguard is a double-faced card, it will transform. The resulting permanent will have its back face up, but it will still be a copy of Elite Vanguard that turn.

September 8, 2017 4:13 a.m.

Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #3

Heir of Falkenrath will transform (since it's still a DFC, which is a physical property that can't be changed), but it will remain a Delver of Secrets  Flip until the copy effect wears off.

In the system of layers that the game uses to determine a card's characteristics, the printed text of a card is basically "Layer 0" and copy effects are in Layer 1. In your example the copy effect turning Heir of Falkenrath into a Delver is still going to be applied on top of Heir to the Night  Flip's printed characteristics. It will go back to being Heir to the Night when the copy effect finally wears off.

September 8, 2017 1:14 p.m.

Neotrup says... #4

Importantly, Heir to the Night  Flip is a Delver of Secrets  Flip in this scenario, it is not an Insectile Aberration even though it's back face is up and it transformed while being a copy. Interestingly, if you activated Heir of Falkenrath and your opponent responded by casting Cytoshape both targeting and choosing Heir of Falkenrath (so that it became a copy of itself) it would transform (so Heir to the Night  Flip was face up) but still be an Heir of Falkenrath.

September 8, 2017 1:22 p.m.

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