I don't properly understand the interaction between casting Archangel Avacyn Flip and people responding with Instants
Asked by Argy 8 years ago
Let's do two scenarios and see if you can explain what is happening, to me.
SCENARIO 1
Player 1: Casts Archangel Avacyn Flip
Player 2: Puts Ultimate Price on the stack on top of Avacyn
What happens here? She dies because the Instant kills her before she fully resolves, and gives herself Indestructibility?
SCENARIO 2
Player 1: Casts Archangel Avacyn Flip
Player 2: Casts Moonlight Hunt and has four 2/2 Wolves kill Avacyn
Is this also before she fully resolves, and gives herself Indestructibility?
OK so my issue seems to be at the step of her triggered ability resolving.
If someone puts a spell on the stack before it resolves, and kills her, the Indestructibility doesn't happen.
April 28, 2016 1:02 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #3
Well the rest of your board gains indestructible as long as Avacyn entered the battlefield (which she would have to be targeted by a kill spell). Once on the stack abilities exist independently of their sources. But yes they can use either of the two listed methods to kill her the turn she enters as long as they do it before her ETB ability resolves.
April 28, 2016 1:57 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #4
The only way to stop the triggered ability from resolving once it's triggered and on the stack is to counter it. Because the ability doesn't have targets, your options are extremely limited. I can only think of 3: Stifle, Trickbind, Voidslime.
I guess you can also get the trigger off the stack by making Player 1 lose the game, but why wasn't that the first thing you tried to do? =P
April 28, 2016 4:29 p.m.
The only other way to remove abilities from the stack that I can think of is to end the turn with something like Time Stop
April 28, 2016 6:38 p.m.
AwesomeOctopus says... #6
In these scenarios, Archangel Avacyn Flip enters the battlefield, that causes her ETB triggered ability to go on the stack, then player 2 responds with instant speed removal, that goes on the stack on top of the triggered ability. player 1 then regains priority and if they do nothing, the stack begins to resolve and the removal spell will resolve first, (remember: first in, last out) killing Archangel Avacyn Flip because the indestribility trigger hasn't resolved yet. then the indestructibility trigger resolves and any other creatures player 1 has gain indestructible. It's important to remember here that triggers on the stack exist independent of their source. ie: even if whatever permanent or spell that put the ability on the stack is destroyed or countered before the stack resolves, the triggered ability is unaffected. Once it's on the stack, it's on the stack and will resolve, barring a few exceptions like Stifle or Time Stop that don't apply to standard.
April 30, 2016 9:46 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #7
If you want to get precise about the priority passes before the removal resolves you should carry that precision through your entire response. If we are being precise then the stack doesn't resolve. Spells and abilities on the stack resolve. One at a time. Each after a round of priority where no one puts any additional objects on the stack. It would therefore be better to say:
In these scenarios, Archangel Avacyn Flip enters the battlefield, that causes her ETB triggered ability to go on the stack, then player 2 responds with instant speed removal, that goes on the stack on top of the triggered ability. Player 1 then regains priority and, if they do nothing, the removal spell will resolve (remember: first in, last out) killing Archangel Avacyn Flip because the indestructibility trigger hasn't resolved yet. Then, if each player passes priority without putting anything else on the stack, the indestructibility trigger resolves and any other creatures player 1 has gain indestructible...
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #1
I get what you mean by "fully resolves", but let's be clear about how this works: When the Archangel Avacyn Flip spell resolves, she enters the battlefield. When she enters the battlefield, her first triggered ability (starts with "when/whenever/at") triggers and is put onto the stack. When that ability resolves, creatures you control gain indestructible.
In either Scenario, Player 2 can kill Avacyn by taking an action in response to Avacyn's triggered ability. Trying to respond to the Avacyn spell in either of these ways doesn't work, because she's not on the battlefield yet to be targeted.
April 28, 2016 12:26 p.m. Edited.