Conduit of Ruin + Kozilek, the Great Distortion

Asked by Kryogenyc 8 years ago

Does Conduit of Ruin reduces the 2 specific colorless from the Kozilek, the Great Distortion or just 2 of the general mana cost?

Raging_Squiggle says... #1

It only makes the generic mana cost less, so if you cast Kozilek, the Great Distortion, you will have to pay

January 11, 2016 3:19 p.m.

TheRedMage says... #2

The correct answer to this question is "we don't know" since the release notes for Oath of the Gatewatch aren't out yet.

If colorless mana symbols work the same as colered mana symbols from this point of view, though, I have to assume it only reduces the generic portion of the mana cost, and not the colorless part.

January 11, 2016 3:22 p.m.

TheRedMage says... #3

Hm. This question reminded me of a neat trick regarding cost reductions. I might use it as a jumping-off point for a "We have to go deeper" article.

January 11, 2016 3:23 p.m.

Mr.Scoops says... #4

I wouldn't mind that at all TheRedMage because my buddy AppleBerryBLASTS and me, more specifically AppleBerryBLASTS, would be interested in any information regarding the new land format and how it is structured in any mode of game play.

January 11, 2016 3:28 p.m.

Raging_Squiggle says... #5

I feel as though cards like Sol Ring are indeed going to be changed to say "add " instead of "add ", however, cards that reduce the cost or increase the cost of spells won't change, for examples: Animar, Soul of Elements, would change to all creatures cost less for each +1/+1 etc...", which would essentially be useless, because not a lot of creatures have the in their Mana Cost.

Similar to Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, making each non-creature spell more would render opponents incapable of casting such spells unless they also had permanents that specifically added to their mana pool. However this is all just speculation and opinions.

January 11, 2016 3:30 p.m.

PepsiAddicted says... #6

gatherer: "Conduit of Ruins last ability cant reduce the amount of colored mana you pay for a spell. It reduces only the generic component of that mana cost."

January 11, 2016 3:33 p.m.

Raging_Squiggle says... #7

isn't colored mana. Nor is it generic, so it doesn't fall into either of those categories in the gatherer ruling. And there could be a major overhaul that changes all that, we just don't know yet.

January 11, 2016 3:35 p.m.

PepsiAddicted says... #8

it doesnt matter if the first part is about colors. it says generic in the last part. thats how this works.

January 11, 2016 3:40 p.m. Edited.

JWiley129 says... #9

Raging_Squiggle - Mark Rosewater would disagree with you

Mark Rosewater on Show

After much soul-searching, not just on the design team but R&D in general, we came to the conclusion that we had to stop using the mana circle with a number to represent both generic and colorless mana. This decision isn't just for Oath of the Gatewatch but for all of Magic. Changing how we represent colorless mana was easier, as it's represented far less, so we opted to make a new mana symbol that represents one colorless mana. We could then use that symbol in Oath of the Gatewatch on colorless mana costs.Title goes hereAfter much soul-searching, not just on the design team but R&D in general, we came to the conclusion that we had to stop using the mana circle with a number to represent both generic and colorless mana. This decision isn't just for Oath of the Gatewatch but for all of Magic. Changing how we represent colorless mana was easier, as it's represented far less, so we opted to make a new mana symbol that represents one colorless mana. We could then use that symbol in Oath of the Gatewatch on colorless mana costs.

January 11, 2016 3:40 p.m.

TheRedMage says... #10

As I mentioned earlier - most of this discussion is rendered moot by the fact that the Release Notes for OGW are not out yet. We can talk as much as we want, but the truth of the matter is that answering questions before WotC has posted the FAQ can and will lead to us giving a wrong answer.

If I had to hazard a guess, that gatherer ruling will also be updated when that happens to say "Conduit of Ruins last ability cant reduce the amount of colored or colorless mana you pay for a spell. It reduces only the generic component of that mana cost."

Until we get the release notes, this is what that is though - a guess. You'll have to wait a few days to get a definitive answer.

January 11, 2016 4:50 p.m. Edited.

Rhadamanthus says... #11

Gatherer rulings are like reminder text: They aren't actual rules text. Rather, they're explanations that try to make it easier to understand how something works. In order to be 100% technically correct, any Gatherer ruling currently written in the style of the one quoted earlier will need to be updated.

That being said, whether or not Conduit of Ruin can reduce the component of Kozilek, the Great Distortion's cost depends on whether Conduit's Oracle text gets updated to use the symbols or left alone to say .

Exactly how an effect that says a spell "costs less to cast" interacts with spells with only generic and colored symbols in their costs does require us to wait for an update to the CR.

January 11, 2016 5:38 p.m.

Gidgetimer says... #12

It reduces the generic portion of the cost. All cards printed before Oath have used the numeric grey circle in costs, including cost modifications, to mean generic and in production to mean colorless. The symbol now allows them to make colorless specific costs and cost modifications and clarify the production of colorless mana.

January 11, 2016 6:41 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #13

I'm going to leave this question open until the update. Please do not post speculative answers in the meantime.

January 11, 2016 6:43 p.m.

Draugo says... #14

In my opinion there's nothing open here. Conduit of Ruin would require an errata to ".. costs less to cast" to allow casting Kozilek without mana which would change the function of the card completely. If someone can point to a card that has changed function without errata to outdated game concepts or misprints then I might put some weight to the idea but as it stands I don't believe such errata has ever been done and see no reason why they would start now.

January 13, 2016 6:41 a.m.

Gidgetimer says... #15

The most recent example I can think of is Loxodon Warhammer to Loxodon Warhammer. Way back when it was done all the time though. The thing is though that WotC has stated multiple times that they are trying to not use errata to change the functionality of cards anymore. The functionality of Conduit of Ruin is that it reduces generic costs. Colorless costs have not been a thing up to this point so there is a small argument to be made. However I am aware of no specific cost reduction that can be applied to generic if not used specifically so changing from to would change functionality.

January 13, 2016 7:09 a.m.

Kryogenyc says... Accepted answer #16

After looking at more cards , i will close my question just by referring to the New Expeditions card for Eye of Ugin the new print does not show the colorless mana symbol either, so i will take the same for the Conduit of Ruin. Thoughts?

January 13, 2016 8:48 a.m.

Raging_Squiggle says... #17

We can now definitively say that Conduit of Ruin will stay as making it cost less. The oracle change has either completed or is underway currently, see Sol Ring and the like. So to answer your question, Kozilek, the Great Distortion would still cost

January 13, 2016 10:22 a.m.