Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded
Modern forum
Posted on Nov. 13, 2018, 1:39 a.m. by ArchonBlue
I was poking around and realized there is actually such a thing as a 2-mana planeswalker, and its Modern-legal! My question is, why doesn't Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded see more play? It seems like he would be pretty great in mono-red decks that try to stay low to the ground, at the very least as a sideboard option against creature heavy decks. I must be missing something, right?
Overall, he's got a terrible set of abilities that don't even justify his casting cost. Even in decks where he might fit (few and far between--perhaps a Madness deck), there's always a better way to use two mana. To provide more detail:
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His draw ability is not actually card advantage, and gets worse the longer the game goes on. The later in the game, the fewer cards you have in hand, and the more likely you've drawn one of your bombs. Overall, his +2 ability is bad to begin with and only gets worse from there.
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His -4 ability requires Tibalt to stick around until turn 4, while using his terrible +1 ability twice. By turn 4, your opponent is likely low on cards, so you're killing your planeswalker to do 2-4 damage. Compare to the two Lightning Bolts you could have cast on turn 2.
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As a general rule of thumb, you should never judge a Planeswalker by its ultimate--with the exception of some very dedicated control Planeswalkers, you're almost never going to fire off an ultimate ability in a real game. Now, discounting that, Tibalt's last ability seems pretty good, but the earliest you're going to be able to use it is turn 6. Even if you did somehow activate it, there are a number of decks that don't run run creatures, so it is completely worthless in a not-insignificant number of matches.
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His starting loyalty is very low. We see "dies to lightning bolt" thrown around a lot when talking about creatures--Tibalt is a Planeswalker that "dies to lightning bolt" even after using his plus ability.
November 13, 2018 2:08 a.m. Edited.
MindAblaze says... #4
It is basically summed up by one six letter word in his +2 ability...random.
I’d love a looting effect on my two mana walker, but even in a madness deck you want some semblance of control over what you’re pitching.
November 13, 2018 2:42 a.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #5
He's bad, that's why no one plays him. Even an 'all-in GY interactions' deck with Hellspark Elemental and Fiery Temper would be bad in a competitive format such as Modern because not powerful enough (I mean compared to Hollow One and Dredge running around...).
November 13, 2018 4:20 a.m.
Hes literally the worst Planeswalker ever printed. Thats why he doesnt see play. Hes so bad its already a joke.
November 13, 2018 6:26 a.m.
GoldenAgeBatman says... #8
Madness player, here. What if Tibalt was used as a "lightning bolt rod" to direct three damage to him rather than to you? That way, you can decrease the probability of your opponent using a bolt on you.
January 21, 2019 2:07 p.m.
GoldenAgeBatman - I do not play Madness, so take the below analysis with a grain of salt.
Honestly, I don't see why an opponent would waste a lightning bolt on Tibalt. Yes, he enables your madness strategy, but he does so in an incredibly mediocre way. You don't get to pick what you are discarding, but rather are at the whim of random chance, be it which card in-hand you discard, or which card is on the top of your deck if you have no cards in your hand. As such, he is not doing too much for you, and I suspect most opponents would rather use that lightning bolt to kill a creature or deal direct damage.
I would also argue playing Tibalt, and having him take up valuable space in the 60 cards, would be more harmful to your chances of success than a lightning bolt to the face or to a creature.
January 21, 2019 2:31 p.m.
GoldenAgeBatman says... #10
cdkime No worries! I'm always interested in gathering different opinions as it helps everyone in the long run.
My logic was if all cards in my hand have madness and I have open mana Tibalt's "random" discard ability grants me 100% chance to put a creature or effect on the board. Concurrently, if an opponent sees me using Tibalt to such an effect it may serve as a distraction (I did this very thing with Key to the City in a recent Legacy tournament to great success.
With all of that in mind I can completely understand what you mean about a waste of a slot in a 60 card deck. I'm just curious about card possibilities. :)
January 21, 2019 2:47 p.m.
GoldenAgeBatman - Even in a situation where 100% of your hand has Madness, that does not mean you want Tibalt's ability. Magic is not just about playing creatures and spells, it's about playing the right creature or spell for that given moment in the game. For Tibalt to be shine, you have to have not just a hand full of Madness cards, but a hand full of Madness cards that you want to play in that given moment. I just do not see that happening often enough to be relevant.
I have been focusing on Tibalt so far, but there's one point I did not mention in earlier posts: it is not enough for Tibalt just to be helpful to the deck (I think I've explained many reasons why I do not think he is helpful to any deck), but he must be more helpful than another card serving the same function.
To that end, Tibalt competes directly with Liliana of the Veil for a card slot. Both have a +1 ability that results in no net change in card advantage (Tibalt replaces the card before discard; Liliana causes both players to lose a card). Liliana, however, allows you to choose the card, and her remaining two abilities are better than Tibalt's.
Even if Liliana is out of one's pricerange, there are better discard enablers than Tibalt. Call the Bloodline , for example, would be a decent option, netting you a 1/1 with lifelink in addition to the ability to choose which card you cast. Further, it can be used at instant speed, allowing you to cheat Madness cards in on your opponent's turn.
Tibalt does give you the excuse to proclaim "[Opponent's name] the hate I bear thee can afford no better term than this,—thou art a villain" during a match, which would certainty give you style points. Style points, however, do not win matches, and I fear your fate would be the same as the young Capulet's.
berryjon says... #2
I could give you a rundown, but I think that the TolarianCommunityCollege has given a better answer than I could:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix3enxUiGVM
November 13, 2018 1:48 a.m.