Should I Call Out a Friend Cheating Casually?
General forum
Posted on Jan. 16, 2016, 1:16 p.m. by Dredge4life
I've been playing MTG for about two years now, and I have two friends I love to play EDH with on a regular basis. The problem I have is one of them cheats fairly consistently. He plays extra lands, draws extra cards and lies about the mana he has access to and never lets me see his land. He keeps it all in one big stack so you can never tell how many he has. Ex: I've used Mindslaver to take control of him when he's on five land, and the turn later he casts Terastodon. He'll also bring his lands up to his hand and slide in extra mana, then pouts when we ask to see his lands. My other friend has consistently noticed him cheating as well, and we're not sure if/when we should confront him about it and how. I'd also like to say that he's a really nice person, he's just very competitive, and I'm getting tired of losing games due to foul play. Suggestions appreciated.
Absolutely. If he's competitive, then he should resort to building better decks rather than cheat. Call him out on his bullshit whenever you see it to bring it to the attention of everyone at the table. Let him know that what he's doing isn't alright. If he keeps at it, I'd go with what Scouty said and stop playing with him.
January 16, 2016 1:26 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #4
Cheating is reprehensible in a fun environment since it poisons the experience. Your friend is petty and mean spirited if he is compelled to cheat between friends. I would certainly confront him over it.
January 16, 2016 1:27 p.m.
I run into these issues often with the casual group I play in (I TA for some high school kids) - people "miscounting" mana costs, switching stuff around when you aren't paying attention, insisting on a certain perception of a rule when no one really knows, etc.
I let some of it roll, just because I'd rather them and myself have fun. I am sure to keep my focus on the game and their hands so they are less likely to try cheating. If they are being blatant about cheating, I'll call them out for sure. Like Scouty said, I'll sometimes let them know we aren't going to play unless they can show some integrity. I also always have my phone handy for rules questions.
January 16, 2016 1:34 p.m.
Cheating isn't on. Information has to be provided. Tell him to play fair or fuck off.
January 16, 2016 3:26 p.m.
Well, if you catch him cheat, just ask him what he is doing? If he suddenly has another land, gently ask him how he got that land. Keep keeping an eye on his plays and ask him out every time he cheats. Don't just suddenly ask him why he cheats. That would be kinda rude.
January 16, 2016 4:28 p.m.
It's pretty friggin rude to be cheating in the first place..
January 16, 2016 4:33 p.m.
Dredge4life says... #11
Thanks for all the responses, it's helped to clear my head a little. The overwhelming consensus is too call him on it, of which I certainly will from now on. But I like TheRaven's approach. Next time I see him cheating I'll ask him nicely to stop, or let me count his land. Thanks for the input guys, this helped me a lot!
January 16, 2016 9:43 p.m.
Dredge4life says... #12
@Scouty I agree that it's rude, and if it was some person at my LGS, I certainly wouldn't tolerate it. But this person is a good friend of mine, this flaw of character is the only main one he has, as far as I know. But I definitely want it to stop, and for him to become an honest player.
January 16, 2016 9:46 p.m.
Basically, if you don't do anything, he won't stop. If he's cheating as much as you say, he's just not going to stop until you make him stop, and the easiest and most peaceful way is to just stop playing with him until he stops cheating.
January 16, 2016 9:58 p.m.
That's not being competitive, that's addiction to winning at any cost.
If he cheat blatantly, then you should too. Play this hand every single game until he gets the idea...
Turn one: Swamp, tap, Dark Ritual, Entomb to get Ulamog's Crusher (to cut his mana supply off early), Reanimate.
Then attack him until he dies.
Get your other friends in on this.
January 17, 2016 8:52 a.m.
Dredge4life says... #16
@Scouty he definitely does it about 75-80% of the time, but I don't want to stop playing with him. However, if he continues to cheat despite my reminders not too, then I may have to take that action.
January 17, 2016 3:28 p.m.
Troy242621 says... #17
I don't think it'd be a good idea to just call him/her a cheater immediately. I'd just start to crack down on it.
I'd hint at it with "Where'd you get the extra land from?" and if it persists, say "Please play the game properly or I'll scoop and you can find someone else to play with."
Hopefully showing him/her you're vigilant about it and know what he/she is doing will make the behavior stop but if not, cheating is absolutely not okay. It ruins everyone's' fun.
January 17, 2016 7:24 p.m.
McSleuthburger says... #18
I mean if talking to him doesnt work, just try and make an agreement with the other people playing and beat him down so he cant win
repeat until he stops cheating
January 17, 2016 9:01 p.m.
I understand you guys are playing casually but if you guys seriously enjoy the tactics to the game then some of the basic rules have to be respected. And one of the major things with MTG, especially at a competitive REL is that you can NEVER. EVER. take cards from your library or your board state and combine them with your hand. Your hand stays separate from all other zones in the game unless a spell or ability to causing you to draw or return something or whatever.
When players scry in a competition, they set their hand down, fanned out, face down so that the other player can see that their hand never touches the cards being looked at, and they can see precisely how many cards they have in their hand before the scry takes place.
Spending mana also needs to be clearly represented. Most players will declare what lands they're tapping and for which mana. You're never allowed to simply pile mana on top of each other.
Both these actions can see players at competitive levels see game and match losses and potentially be disqualified.
Acting by these simple steps doesn't make the game any less fun. It just requires a little more precision in play. Keeping things tidy. Once it's a habit the game doesn't lose any of it's fun or allure.
If you just entice your playgroup to start following the basic etiquette of competitive magic then you could avoid a lot of these problems with your friend.
January 18, 2016 12:23 p.m.
Can I ask how old your friend is? Maybe it's just an immaturity issue.
And does he actually really enjoy the game? If he's constantly cheating and fucking around instead of taking your games seriously, maybe he doesn't actually love the game as much as most of us do, and is just there to hang out with his buddies.
I'll give an example of one of my friends. Love the guy and his younger brothers and i've known him for 23 years. But I just can't watch a movie with him, as he doesn't shut the fuck up and actually watch the movie. He'll talk through it, try and grab everyone's attention by any means possible, and it's just insufferable. He won't do this at the theater, but forget about it if you're in the house. It doesn't even matter what genre it is. And I KNOW he LIKES watching movies because he'll watch em when he's by himself, and he's fine at the theater. It's just that he's got a mental block when it comes to watching movies in a casual environment with friends.
Anyway, I dunno what's inspiring your friend to cheat, but if he's not even really making an effort to conceal his cheating and he isn't stopping when you guys tell him to, there may be some reason other than "he likes cheating and needs to win at all costs".
January 19, 2016 1:39 a.m. Edited.
I had a similar issue, it dealt with itself this way:
We more or less ignored it at first, called it out sometimes if it was obvious, but always phrased like "it's turn 6, I think you played that 7th land by accident.."
Then one day I made a mistake in a group casual game, and was called out on it. Somthing like trying to cast an Archangel of Tithes by unthinkingly tapping 4 mana but only having 2 white sources. (you could set this up with your other friend if you dont wanna wait for it to happen organically).
I get the joking response: "cheating that into play, are we?"
I think for a second and realize what I did. Respond jokingly with: "of course... I obviously need to cheat at a card game full of dragons and goblins to have any self-worth".
We laugh. The usual cheater got the message.
Scouty says... #2
Call them out. If they're cheating all the time, then they're not playing the game. Just tell them "we know you're cheating, so stop or we're not going to play with you."
January 16, 2016 1:20 p.m.