Ok, someone enlighten me on the archetypes of MTG...
General forum
Posted on July 16, 2015, 3:46 p.m. by TheAnnihilator
So, all my life I've heard about the Control-Aggro-Midrange setup -- then I hear that in other areas of the world people use Combo-Aggro-Control as the Rock-Paper-Scissors setup.
Which three do you prefer, and what exactly beats what?
Also, how do decks that have split types like Splinter Twin and Melira & Company fit into the scheme of things? Similarly, what about aggro-control (which I like to call Tempo) and midrage-control, and what are they most dominant against?
Rasta_Viking29 says... #4
Midrange has a huge presence in Standard but not so much in Modern and it's almost non-existent in Legacy. Combo on the other hand is a big part of the Legacy meta game, important in Modern, and almost never shows up in Standard. It really depends on which format you are describing as to which archetypes apply.
July 16, 2015 4:07 p.m.
@xlaleclx nope, Magicrafter got it right: Aggro > Control > Midrange > Aggro.
July 16, 2015 4:16 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #6
@Rasta_Viking29 the thing is that I regard Abzan in Modern as solidly Midrange, while something like Jund strikes me as being Midrange-Aggro (emphasis on midrange).
But I agree that Legacy just doesn't support Midrange. Maybe Maverick counts?
July 16, 2015 4:25 p.m.
Ive always heard a 3 archetype format be Aggro, control and combo with midrange being an aggro deck on a higher curve.
When I hear the bigger cycle as it were it is aggro disruptive aggro control, combo, midrange and ramp
July 16, 2015 4:32 p.m.
weisemanjohn says... #8
from what I've understood:
aggro = small things fast and early
tempo = big things before they are generally supposed to be played, or preventing your opponent from playing things when they generally should be; playing cards who's cmc matches the turn is generally should be
combo = mix of cards that provides for a significant change in the state of the game such as something going "infinite"
midrange = beat down with moderately sized to big creatures around turns 5-7
control = preventing your opponent from having an advantages state and play attrition until your opponent is out of gas and you have a sure-fire win
aggro > control due to speed
midrange > aggro due to having things to put in the way
control > midrange due to time to set up enough mana to affect your opponent
tempo and combo have various speeds of play but tempo is closer to midrange where as combo is closer to control.
July 16, 2015 5 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #10
I really like that article's take on it, and it definitely clears a lot of things up.
I just would LOVE if sites like mtgtop8 could sort their categories to reflect Aggro -> Midrange -> Ramp/Combo -> Control/Tempo (they call Tempo "Disruptive Aggro" in the article).
July 16, 2015 5:18 p.m.
Programmer_112 says... #11
Well, the issue with this classification system is when we get decks like Faeries or Delver, which are "Aggro-Control" decks (see this article for more details). Based on my experience, whichever deck is just slightly slower than the other deck wins. For example, in Modern, Abzan beats Jund, because its curve is a bit higher, so it gets to play bigger curve toppers like Siege Rhino and extra Tasigur, the Golden Fangs. Tron beats B/G/x decks, because it's curve-toppers are bigger, but don't take much longer to deploy (see Wurmcoil Engine, Karn Liberated, etc.). However, a deck like Infect beats Tron, because Tron's threats are too big; that is, by the time Tron can land a threat, Infect is threatening lethal. Thus, we get something like Aggro>Control>Midrange>Aggro, although of course variance changes that.
Combo is a bit weird, but nothing we can't handle with this curve. Let's look at 2 of the most common combo decks in Modern, Twin and Primeval Titan. Twin is basically just a tempo-based control deck that happens to win with a combo (you've probably heard this before). Twin can go for the T3 Deceiver Exarch, T4 Splinter Twin, but more often that not, it plays out as a UR control deck, often not even executing its combo, so we classify it as a control deck.
Primeval Titan is harder to classify, but it's not impossible. We look at what the deck does when it doesn't execute its combo. Basically, instead of T2/T3 Titans, the deck can board into Hornet Queens and other big nonsense, and try to grind out the win against fair decks like Abzan or Jund by having a slightly higher curve. Basically, the deck becomes a midrange deck, and so we can classify it as such (although this isn't ideal).
There are some combo decks that we can't classify like this. Look at UR Storm, for example. When the deck doesn't execute its combo, it loses. These decks can be classified as aggro combo decks, although again, this isn't ideal.
In fact, the above classifications are why combo decks such as Splinter Twin are so good in Modern, and part of the reason that pure control doesn't do very well. If someone were to play regular UR control, that deck would be good against midrange and bad against aggro. By adding the Splinter Twin combo, the deck is a bit worse against Midrange, but has a fighting chance against aggro, making it a better deck overall. Basically, because it has a chance to "combo out" in the earlier turns, the deck is better against more aggressive decks.
Of course, control does not always beat midrange, and midrange does not always beat aggro, and aggro does not always beat control. For example, at my LGS, there is a UW Tron player who hates Storm so much that he sideboards 3 Mindbreak Trap, 2 Chalice of the Void, 2 Disenchant (to hit Pyromancer's Ascension), and some other stuff I don't remember, coming to 11 cards in total. With a standard UW Tron sideboard, he would be a 45-55 underdog or something like that. With his sideboard, he wins something like 90% of his matches against Storm, because he sideboards a ton of cards to win that specific matchup. However, normally, the rule holds.
The weird part is when we have a deck like Faeries, which is Aggro-Control. Faeires basically has 2 gameplans: against Midrange, play Control, and against Control, play Aggro. Against Aggro, it's really up to the player. However, by leaving both options open, Faeries isn't a great Aggro deck and isn't a great Control deck. As an Aggro deck, it has cards like Cryptic Command, and as a Control deck, it has cards like Scion of Oona. Although neither card is necessarily bad in those modes, neither is ideal, and so Faeries has a sort of identity crisis, playing as a bad disruptive aggro deck (Delver is better) or a bad quick-clock control deck (Grixis Control is better). For these reasons, these types of decks are either very good or very bad, as discussed in the article above.
Hope this helped!
HolyFalcon says... #2
Aggro>Control>Midrange>Aggro is what I use. Never heard of combo in that. Twin is control, Melira Company is aggro, though I'm not 100% on Melira.
July 16, 2015 3:51 p.m. Edited.