Strange Mana costs, and how to interpatate their converted value.

Asked by Kjartan 9 years ago

What is Spectral Procession? When it's on the stack, is its cmc the payed amount like x-spells.

What about a like like Breaking / Entering, What would happen if a use Inquisition of Kozilek can I choose breaking or is it a 8-cmc spell? When on the stack, is it only the cmc of a part that has been cast.

JWiley129 says... #1

Spectral Procession has a CMC of 6, as it says on its Gatherer entry.

And I may be wrong here, but you should be able to take Breaking / Entering since when a card is in your hand it has two CMCs, 2 and 6.

August 25, 2015 3:35 p.m.

TheRedMage says... Accepted answer #2

Ok so:

Each symbol like counts as 2 when calculating the converted mana cost of a card. Most versions of Spectral Procession are printed with reminder text that explicitly tells you that the card's converted mana cost is 6 (note: this is independent of how I pay the cost. Disdainful Stroke can still counter Spectral Procession even if you pay for it).

It wasn't in your original question, but I thought I'd address it anyway - Phyrexian mana symbols like count as 1 when determining the converted mana cost of a card (again, this is independent of how the cost is paid. Spell Snare will never be able to counter Dismember even it was cast for and two life).

For split cards like Breaking / Entering the answer is different. For most intent and purposes, you can consider Breaking / Entering as two cards, one with cmc 2 and one with cmc 6 (unless it's on the stack and you did not fuse it - then it only has the characteristic of the card you cast). There are two scenarios:
- If you are being asked for a positive comparison then it is satisfied if either half satisfies it. For example, you can discard Breaking / Entering to Inquisition of Kozilek, since the "Breaking" side is a cmc 2 card. But you can also discard it to Appetite for Brains since the "Entering" side is a cmc 6 card.
- If you are asking for a total number, you get the sum. For example, if you reveal Breaking / Entering to the Dark Confidant trigger, you lose 8 life.

Other random notes:
- Morphs and maniphests have no mana cost, so their cmc is 0. The same goes for the back-side of a double-faced cards
- Kamigawa-style flip cards like Erayo, Soratami Ascendant still have the same mana cost (and thus, cmc) of their unflipped counterpart after they flip.

If you are interested in more interactions with split cards or other corner cases you can ask more in detail what interaction you are curious about.

EDIT - fixed broken formatting

August 25, 2015 4:09 p.m. Edited.

Triforce-Finder says... #3

Since "x-spells" were mentioned in the question...

The in the costs of cards like like Fireball or Mistcutter Hydra is always considered to be zero for the purpose of calculating the converted mana cost.

CMC basics:

• Only the (visible) printed symbols contained in the casting cost are used to calculate the CMC.
• The CMC of a spell is never derived from the actual mana payed for it.
• The CMC is neither affected by any cost-altering effects, nor by alternative or additional costs.
• For modal symbols as or , the higher mana value is used. But:
• Variable cost symbols as always count as zero for calculating the CMC.

Those should help you to handle most basic cases.

August 26, 2015 2:48 p.m. Edited.

TheRedMage says... #4

@ Triforce-Finder: there is an important exception though - that is, when a spell is on the stack. For example, if I cast Breaking / Entering for the "Breaking" side, which costs two mana, Disdainful Stroke cannot counter it, even if the "Entering" side is a six mana spell. However, it can counter a fused Turn / Burn as the converted mana cost of the fused spell is 5 (even if neither the "Turn" or "Burn" halves have cmc 4 or greater) - even if Appetite for Brains cannot take a Turn / Burn from your hand.

As for spells, X is assumed to be 0 everywhere except while they are on the stack, when X is whatever you paid for it. If I cast Crater's Claws for X=4, it's converted mana cost while it's on the stack will be 5, and Disdainful Stroke can counter it.

In every other zone, Crater's Claws has converted mana cost one. You can use Firemind's Foresight to pick it up, for example. That

August 26, 2015 3:18 p.m. Edited.

Triforce-Finder says... #5

@ TheRedMage

Huh, I didn't know about X costs being variable on the stack. Too bad I cant edit my last post anymore. But good to know nonetheless.

With split cards the problem is less about "how do I calculate the CMC" but rather "For which spell do I calculate the CMC?" Split cards are, in layman's terms, two spells on one card. Some allow to cast both sides as one single spell spell with fuse.

Without fuse, Only the half that was casted is considered to be on the stack, the other half is treated as if it wouldn't exist as per 708.2/708.2a.

A spell cast with fuse, while on the stack, is considered to be a single spell with two sets of characteristics and one CMC as per 708.2/708.2b. Countering it will also counter both sides.

If you ask me, that split card stuff was a horrible design in terms of usability.

August 26, 2015 3:53 p.m. Edited.

TheRedMage says... #6

Please note that when I was suggesting to pick Crater's Claws up with Firemind's Foresight I was obviously wrong since the former is a sorcery and the latter only tutors for instants.

August 27, 2015 4:32 p.m.