clarification on ratchet bomb's precise effect
Asked by theultrasphinx 13 years ago
the wordinds states "destroy all nonland permanents who's converted mana cost is EQUAL to the number of counters on ratchet bomb". my question is, does it also destroy cards who's mana cost is LESS than the number of counters on it? if the wording is followed exactly as it is written than the answer should be no. just as 3 does NOT equal 2. it seems like it would say "equal to or less than.." if that was the intended effect.
I feel like I know the answer to the question but I just want to be 100% sure. thanks.
I too am curious about this. My whole werewolf deck has been board wiped by that damn thing and I was unsure whether or not it was actually possible to do that. I have heard of clearing boards of tokens, but since my flipped werewolves didn't actually have a mana cost on that side of the card is it really a board wipe??
March 21, 2012 2:32 a.m.
theultrasphinx says... #3
I know I got part of the wording wrong but my question still is the same. should read: "destroy each nonland permanent with a converted mana cost equal...etc."
March 21, 2012 2:34 a.m.
KorApprentice says... #4
Yes, if there are 0 charge counters on Ratchet Bomb, then only nonland permanents with converted mana cost 0 will be affected. The back side of any double faced card has a converted mana cost of 0. From the MTG Comprehensive Rulebook:
711.2b While a double-faced permanents back face is up, it has only the characteristics of its back face. The back face doesnt have a mana cost; it has the colors in its color indicator (see rule 202.2e), if any.
March 21, 2012 2:35 a.m.
In the game I was playing the artifact was brought out and immediately sacrificed. Should that kill all of my transformed werewolves?
March 21, 2012 2:36 a.m.
That sucks, so there's an easy 2 cost board wipe against my $200 werewolf deck :/ At least soon it won't be standard.
March 21, 2012 2:38 a.m.
KorApprentice says... #7
Yes, I just said that it will destroy anything with converted mana cost 0. Your flipped werewolves have a converted mana cost of 0, so they will be destroyed. Ratchet Bomb can be tapped and sacrificed the turn it is played because artifacts are not affected by 'summoning sickness'.
March 21, 2012 2:39 a.m.
KorApprentice says... #8
Ratchet Bomb has made werewolves almost unviable in today's Standard. I expect they will see a lot more tournament play when Scars rotates.
March 21, 2012 2:41 a.m.
theultrasphinx says... #9
yeah! part of the reason I'm asking is because the same thing happened to me only i was running tokens and my openent was hitting me with 2 and 3 count bombs. I just let it go at the time because I was new to the game and I figured the person I was playing against knew better than I did. I've since become determined that if there were ever a dispute I'd just ask for a judge's ruling but it hasn't come up. anyway, thanks!! planning on using a couple in my glissa deck and wanted to be absolutely clear about the rules.
March 21, 2012 2:55 a.m.
Yeah that's a bummer too. It just really sucks when you have a few 4 cost werewolves out and transformed and they throw out a 2 cost artifact for a board wipe. I would think that if a creature was summoned for a certain cost then on the flip side it could possibly change colors but should have the same initial mana cost because it's still the same creature, just the transformed version. Don't get me wrong, I know that it actually has a 0 mana cost, but I just needed a place to rant about my Ratchet Bomb hatred. The only scenario that would be worse than transformed creatures being wiped would be a bunch of Lotuses or Moxes, lol. Thanks for the help guys!
March 21, 2012 3:12 a.m.
Solution to ratchet bomb, for werewolf decks. Play with 4 Full Moon's Rise, Try to get 1 out before ratchet bomb comes out.
If they ratchet bomb you, sac, pop Full Moon's Rise, and regenerate all your werewolves.
Another way is to sideboard in Naturalize. Since Naturalize is instant speed, it will destroy ratchet bomb, before ratchet bomb can destroy your werewolves.
Another way is to use Phyrexian Metamorph. If you copy a flipped werewolf with Metamorph, it CANT be flipped back, and altho it is copying a flipped werewolf, it still has a mana cost. Which means ratchet bomb, might destroy your flipped werewolves, but your metamorph opy of a flipped werewolf, will remain standing.
Also not all decks main deck ratchet bomb, but rather sideboard them instead.
Also if your opponent ratchet bombs you, use Green Sun, and Garruk Relentless, in games 2,3 to search up as many immerwolfs, into play as possible, and then metamorph copy those immerwolfs. And then watch them not be able to block your PUMPED imkmerwolfs.
Ratchet bomb, altho annoying can be dealt with.
But it will be nice to see ratchet bomb rotate out with scars, since there are other board wipers, like Life's Finale, D O J, Divine Reckoning, Slagstorm, Blasphemous Act, Black Sun's Zenith
March 21, 2012 3:59 a.m.
KorApprentice says... #12
If you cast Naturalize, or any other form of removal that uses the stack and does not have split second, they can use Ratchet Bombs sacrifice ability in response and put it on the stack above your spell/ability so that it will resolve first. You cannot cast Naturalize or anything of the sort in response to Ratchet Bombs sacrifice ability. Sacrificing Ratchet Bomb is part of the cost to put that ability on the stack, so your Naturalize will have no target. Not that it would matter anyway, abilities exist on the stack independent of their sources, so destroying the source of an ability after that ability has been activated/triggered would do nothing to stop that ability from resolving.
March 21, 2012 4:23 a.m.
You are incorrect about Naturalize and Ratchet Bomb. Read KorApprentice's post above.
Additionally, if Phyrexian Metamorph copies the back side of a werewolf, it also copies the mana cost and converted mana cost of the creature. This means that Phyrexian Metamorph will have no mana cost and a zero converted mana cost. A Ratchet Bomb with zero counters will destroy it, too.
March 21, 2012 6:16 a.m.
hunter9000 says... #14
mikedh1's plan to Naturalize the Ratchet Bomb would work if you do it before your werewolves flip to their 0 cmc sides. That's pretty chancey though, since anyone who knows how to play against werewolves would wait until they flipped to play the bomb.
March 21, 2012 9:46 a.m.
@mikedh1 well, I understand what you are trying to say and I actually have ways around it in my deck. At the time I had no idea he sideboarded Ratchet Bomb into our FIRST game. Also, if you look at my deck Blasphemous Hunt you can see that I have 4 Full Moon's Rise, 4 Moonmist, 2 Ancient Grudge, and 4 Fog. It doesn't really matter what you have in a deck if you don't have something in your hand ready to play, or don't have a Full Moon's Rise out when they bring out and instantly sac the Ratchet Bomb. All you can do is say, ahhhh fuuuuu.
Thanks again for the input guys.
March 21, 2012 10:26 a.m.
The other issue with trying to Naturalize a Ratchet Bomb is that they retain priority after the bomb resolves and enters the battlefield, so they can then pop its ability before you can do anything, anyway.
This is the problem I keep having against Birthing Pod decks. I can blow up the pod immediately, but he's still used it to sac a Strangleroot Geist and get Something Ridiculous with 3CMC out anyway.
Thus: Steel Sabotage. Sadly it's not in the colors for Werewolves to use it. :(
March 21, 2012 1:09 p.m.
Also Mental Misstep is an answer to ratchet bomb. So far I have had any problems with ratchet bomb at FNM's with my werewolf deck. That's because its usually not maindecked, and is sided in games 2,3 where I pop a full moon's riseto regenerate my werewolves.
If ratchet bomb starts being a problem for me, by making it so that I have to pop a full Moon's rise all the time, and thus not being able to Blasphemous Act, because Full Moon's Rise is gone, then I will change my sideboard from:
3 naturalizes, 3 Autumn's Veils, 3 Tunnel Ignus, 3 Grafdigger Cages, 3 Blasphemous Acts
to taking out 2,3, 1 of each of 2,3 different sideboard cards, andadding in 2,3 Mental Missteps. I would also change the B Acts, into slagstorms.
Ratchet bomb is 1 cmc so Mental Misstep will stop ratchet bomb in a werewolf deck's sideboard, when you side it in, draw it, play it.
March 21, 2012 3:10 p.m.
My bad, never mind I thought ratchet bomb was 1 cmc. not 2 cmc.
I still might change the B acts, to slagstorms tho still.
March 21, 2012 3:12 p.m.
Ok fine another reason to run 4 birds of Paradise in a werewolf deck. use Birds for blue mana to side in a Mana Leak from the sideboard, and mana leak the ratchet bomb
So if ratchet bomb starts causing to many problems for me, then instead of adding 2,3 mental missteps, I would sideboard 2,3 mana leaks instead of mental missteps.
KorApprentice says... Accepted answer #1
No, the wording is specific for a reason. It does exactly as the card implies, permanents with converted mana cost less than or greater than the number of charge counters on Ratchet Bomb
will not be affected.
March 21, 2012 2:31 a.m.