What is Lead the Stampede doing in Elves?
Modern forum
Posted on May 19, 2016, 2:20 a.m. by icehit6
I'm seriously not getting it. I've been seeing it a lot lately in elves builds and it doesn't make sense to me whatsoever. A lot of deck builders take out Chord of Calling for Lead the Stampede. The two cards cannot even be compared! Lead the stampede is just a really bad version of Collected Company anyway! So why are people running it?
I understand that it can get some important creatures in your hand and whatnot. That's great. Collected Company can get those things onto the battlefield without paying the cost, and if you're someone who is really having trouble finding that card anyways, you can grab it with Chord of Calling, or even grab it with Fauna Shaman. Chord is the the bread of the elves deck while CoCo is the butter. CoCo allows the "spit my deck out" play style while Chord allows the play style where can react to things. When you run Lead the Stampede, you take that away from your deck.
Can someone please explain this to me? I've played a ton of elves, tried both, but Stampede just seems really, really useless to me.
ItchiUchiha117 says... #3
I'm not entirely sure, so I'm just guessing here, but I think it's because you can draw three or more creatures off of a single three mana spell. Even if, for one mana more at instant speed, you can get two on the battlefield, most are going to prefer flipping over four or five cards and just putting them in their hand, especially if one is a Craterhoof Behemoth that they can play on the next turn or the one after, after they dump all the rest of the creatures they drew.
May 19, 2016 2:35 a.m.
ItchiUchiha117 says... #4
I'd say refer to his statement rather than mine, but it's nice to know I was at least somewhat close.
May 19, 2016 2:36 a.m.
But that's in a perfect game though. The "whole turn earlier" argument makes sense and everything, but like logically speaking in a competitive modern format you can expect NOT to be getting Elvish Archdruid out, or other mana dorks. And you can expect a lightning bolt for your Heritage Druid. Lead the Stampede may give you more gas, yeah, but it's not going to matter when you don't have the ability to even play all of the mana dorks in your hand. You logically speaking, if expecting removal, should not dump your hand onto the board. Chord of Calling is amazing evasion. It's better than Lead the Stampede because it allows you to react to certain plays. For example, you have an Elvish Archdruid in play that's going to be a big deal next turn. Your opponent uses Lightning Bolt on it. You use your mana and convoke for 5 and grab Spellskite, paying two life to save your Archdruid, ultimately saving you the game. Lead the Stampede isn't going to do that.
May 19, 2016 2:43 a.m.
And in general, I've never had much of an issue from coming back from sweepers whatsoever. Like yeah, they're definitely a pain in the ass, but there's no way possible you're coming back from a card that gives all creatures -1/-1 or -2/-2. Lead the Stampede or not. With destroy all creature sweepers, it's not a huge deal. Collected Company can deal with it just fine, and playing your Elvish Visionaries for card advantage get you back in the game. If they destroy your creatures, their creatures are likely destroyed, too. It's an even playing field at that point.
May 19, 2016 2:51 a.m.
If you arent paying the black version of elves chord is pretty garbage in the deck the mono green and green white versions need critical mass not one spicy target.
May 19, 2016 7:28 a.m.
That's not true whatsoever. Chord of Calling offers a good amount of resilience to protect creatures, which is extremely important. You can chord Spellskite, Burrenton Forge-tender, and it gives you some removal if you go after Reclamation Sage. It's far from garbage.
May 19, 2016 9:47 a.m.
No, he's correct on that front. You need a critical mass of Elves in order for any of those utility bullets to be useful, or for Ezuri/Archdruid to actually be a threat. Lead the Stampede gets you there better than Chord of Calling does. If you have any other questions about how this works out in practice, I'd suggest you review Reid Duke's videos on the subject, as that is what changed my mind on the card.
May 19, 2016 9:53 a.m.
Garbage wasnt really a correct term that was just to rustle your jimmies but it worse than lead the stampede for sure maybe not as a full 4 of difference but max 2 chords in the deck.
May 19, 2016 10:13 a.m.
I'm not saying that he's incorrect about it being a critical mass deck. I'm saying he's incorrect about Chord being garbage. And yes, while you need elves for Ezuri and Archdruid to be a threat, if you're playing versus a lot of boardclears, it's likely your opponent is some type of control or burn. And if not, a board clear like Pyroclasm is a sideboard card. So you should generally be swinging as often as possible, not just using your mana dorks for mana. There are a lot of different ways to play, and I've had a ton of success in FNMs with Chord list over stampede list and the sole reason is the inability to react. If I'm having trouble with board clears, I just swing. With fetch lands and shock lands being a thing, people tend to hurt themselves a lot in the process of getting themselves set up too. This generally leads to them having to play a lot more carefully because in the process of me swinging at them with a couple 1/1s every turn and them getting their precious dual lands out to set up, they basically kill themselves. And then they board clear, I can CoCo at the end of turn and try a kill. But don't tell me Chord is garbage when you lose all of your ability to react to combo pieces or important enchantments/artifacts at instant speed. That's why I think that chord is better than stampede. Elves is an aggro deck. You should be looking to win early, so refilling your hand (which btw two cards isn't going to do a great job at that) isn't going to be that useful when you play something it's likely going to die anyways. You might as well have something in there that's going to allow you to react.
May 19, 2016 10:17 a.m.
Players are using it for a reason -- it seems to be working! I've never been impressed with Chord in any Elf variant except Mono Green.
Also, EmblemMan was just trying to work you up icehit6...don't take things so personally. It seems like you are 100% against using Lead the Stampede for some reason. Just because people don't play a card you think should always be played doesn't mean they are wrong. He was right about a lot of things he said.
May 19, 2016 10:56 a.m.
I see the points of it! I dunno I don't think it's necessarily "wrong," but it's most definitely a different playstyle. Between the two it seems like it's either you play Chord for reactive plays, or Lead the Stampede for legit all inning the other player. Reactive playstyle feels better for competitive imo.
May 19, 2016 11:03 a.m.
I dunno was on edge this morning :| got into an argument with my gf, we fixed it though! I'm calm now. Apologies for being hostile!
May 19, 2016 11:04 a.m.
Oh I really dont care I wasnt even offended or anything. Also I feel like if you want to consider elves an aggro deck and you want to beat their face in stampede is still better because its a PROACTIVE card which is what you need in that gameplan. I understand there is merit to being reactive sometimes but elves cant just sit around with chords in hand and not much on the field they need to kill the opponent fast. Also the other thing about being reactive is there isnt much to be reactive with spellskite doesnt really stop you from being combo'd out anymore and rec sage and burreton and stuff are all very situational or sideboarded so yeah its nice to tutor them up but its not going to win you the game a lot of times.
May 19, 2016 11:13 a.m.
I mean, that's true! But a rising deck recently seems to be infect. A lot of people are starting to play it. Being able to chord out a Spellskite early has really shut games down for me at FNM. It destroys burn as well.
Elves is most definitely an aggro deck, but it strives off of mana ramp. I think it's extremely important to have some resiliency, you know? For example, I run one Asceticism mainboard to protect my creatures.
Resiliency in elves really does win, but I definitely do see the strength of refilling your hand.
May 19, 2016 11:26 a.m.
I feel like you keep changing what you are saying about the deck. First you say its a reactive deck then you say its an aggro deck, then you say it needs resiliency but then after that you say that it needs to hit face quickly, you also said that the deck cant sit around using its guys for mana ramp because it needs to hit face but you just said the deck is about using its mana ramp. I understand a deck often times needs both but the deck isnt that multifaceted you build it one way (proactive) or you build it another way (reactive) and you just keep changing your opinions of the deck.
May 19, 2016 12:02 p.m.
alright I dont know why but my comment wont post so yeah...
May 19, 2016 12:04 p.m.
I see your point! However all that reigns true because it seriously depends on what you play.
Elves is always going to be aggro, that's just that. However, there are different ways that your "aggro deck" can be played. Aggro decks CAN have a form of control.
The aggro part of the deck is killing someone in one hit with Ezuri, and spitting little guys out.
The reactive and resilient part of the deck is Chord of Calling on certain things like Reclamation Sage and Spellskite and Burrenton Forge-Tender etc.
The great thing about elves is you can choose whether you want to mana ramp, hence using the little guys for the 
, or you can choose to smack the opponent with 1/1 bodies. So it really is both mana ramp, and hit face. I don't think I'm necessarily changing idea, rather just highlighting different playstyles.
May 19, 2016 12:07 p.m.
Thats fine but you have to choose a side if you are going to argue chord or stampede is better because if you say the deck has all of these play styles then in some styles chord could be better and others stampede is better
May 19, 2016 12:22 p.m.
I agree. I still personally still like chord better though. Those mechanics are built into the creatures elves run, so it's really flip floppy.
May 19, 2016 12:32 p.m.
In my eyes, it just boils down to the number of creatures you get per spell. CoCo will only ever find 2 creatures, max. Lead the Stampede can find up to 5 at once. Putting them into play isn't a big deal since the deck already runs a ton of ramp.
With Elves, it's all about quantity instead of quality.
May 19, 2016 1:14 p.m.
If you are playing chord to grab silver bullets then you are trying to play an aggro deck as a midrange deck. Elves just wants to acquire critical mass and recover from common counter strategies like board clear. Chord does not do this, and CoCo does this worse than Lead the Stampede. One thing to remember is that Elves plays A LOT of 1 and 2 mana creatures. Why would I want to pay 4 mana to put 2 mana worth of creatures onto the field when I could pay 3 mana to just put it into hand. Like the cheaper the creature grabber is, the less likely it is to whiff in a deck full of efficient costed creatures. You dont want to waste 4 mana grabbing stuff that costs little to play. So many decks opt to spend 3 instead.
Also in terms of recovering from board clear. Filling your hand with 5 cards potentially is much better than putting two on board. Regardless of the quality of those cards, again you just want critical mass.
May 19, 2016 1:50 p.m.
Essentially, Chord vs Lead comes down to the meta you're expecting. If you need to be explosive above all else (ala Eldrazi Winter), Chord is far better because it can just read "6 mana: Win target game".
However, considering the new hotness is UWR Nahiri, and the fact that Midrange/Control dekcs are sprouting up, the more resilient card could be better.
For the record, I'm pretty convinced Chord is better mainboard regardless, with X Leads in the board. But when it's only slowing you down by a turn, and you're not going to die in that turn, it's entirely reasonable to go for the option that's better against hate cards.
rothgar13 says... #2
Because Lead the Stampede gives you much more gas than Chord of Calling does. Collected Company does this to an extent, but not as well as Lead the Stampede - if you're hitting 3-4 Elves per casting (and you should be), your hand will always stay full, which can enable bouncing back from sweepers (Elves' worst enemy) to extending a "blurt out your hand" chain even further (which often assures a kill coming a whole turn earlier),
May 19, 2016 2:34 a.m.