Cost in Consistency and the Role of the Random
The Kitchen Table forum
Posted on Dec. 28, 2021, 6:48 p.m. by Niko9
So, I think it's fair to say that the majority of magic games are just that; magic games. Most players aren't going pro, antes are antiquity, and really, most of the time when we sit down and tap some mana, the stakes are about as high as a crossword puzzle. The idea has always been the fun, so I guess my question is, what is the point of cards that increase consistency? Or, maybe rather say, at what point does making your deck more consistent become worth the cost?
Magic as a game has always relied on randomization. When the companion mechanic gave us one card per deck that was 100% guaranteed, it had to instantly get nerfed. It broke the rule of randomization that magic is built on. Similarly, Arcum's Astrolabe is banned in multiple formats for making decks that were already good simply function better. The problem is that power-level in consistency is a sliding scale, and there are plenty of things that are just there to up your percentages and down your wallet.
Fetch, shock, and other similar lands are probably the prime example. I mean, for a 4 or 5 color deck to fix mana to simply function makes a lot of sense, but for a 2-3 color deck to fix mana to win slightly more games seems, honestly, odd, especially given the difference in price with a basic/budget manabase.
And there have been other cards, especially recently, that aren't inherently the most powerful, but are popular to push win percentages. The elemental incarnations, Ragavan, esper sentinal, yep, they're incrementally better than what came before them, but better enough to be everywhere.
My question, I guess is, for all the kitchentable players, or people who log on to MTGO every now and then, EDH grinders, or anyone who just wants to sit down and play their favorite spells and creatures when they get the chance, for people like me :) what is the place for consistency in magic?
Personally I'd rather just shuffle up and play again and if I get mana screwed, well, that's part of the game. If fetches were a few dollars or something, then maybe I'd feel differently, but as it is it seems like, as a design of the game, they want to give you the option to remove some level of randomization, but they sure want you to pay for it.
Heh, and yeah, I know that these are not new ideas to the game. It's been what it is for a while, it's just, I'm curious about it I guess. What is the appeal of a few more wins for a lot more money? Where does fun and enjoyment in the game fit into that kind of arrangement?
Really, I don't mean to disparage anyone and I do believe, for sure, that it's cool to play and do whatever you want to do. I just don't get it, you know? Like, when someone is playing a fetchland in their EDH deck with no sac synergy or anything, just a fetch, I kinda feel like from a purely bang for a buck view, this is pitter patters and I can't wrap my head around it.
Anyways, hope everyone has a good one today and everyone has fun playing some things : )
RNR_Gaming That makes total sense. I didn't really consider small tournaments and things, and that's very interesting. Honestly, I way out in the sticks, so I guess always think about it as either paper with friends or MTGO. Thanks for the perspective!
Maybe part of my big hang up is the sheer difference between a casual and a tuned deck. It feels like they are designing cards that appeal to a need to tune decks rather than a want to build decks. I could be way off, but that's what it feels like sometimes.
December 28, 2021 8:31 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #4
I think that there isn’t really anything more MtG-ey than building an elaborate Rube Goldberg machine of goblins, elves, artifacts, and a giant world-ending spell. To make that happen you need, in the initial example, a very specific set of lands and spells (in the right order). That’s cool, and I probably played that way at some point. To make that work more than 2% of the time you need tutors and fetches and all that bling. If you throw it all to the wind and hope it works, you’ll spend most of your time losing, which is undesirable to humans. As a lazy slacker-type in this department, playing EDH exclusively, I have found a way to (internally) declare myself a winner of sorts just by bringing out a theme deck. It brings me more enjoyment than I would care to admit when I play an Evil Presence from my haunted house deck and see people’s faces when they realize that they had never thought about that card in the sense of a haunting of one’s island/mountain/etc. I have so much fun playing in the old and dull draw-play-land-cast-spell-pass style because people are basically just watching to see what comes up next. I lose over 90% of my games, I expect, but I have fun literally every night I get to play. So my short answer is: I wouldn’t pay a penny to make my decks more high-speed-low-drag. Now... am I tempted to blow however much it would cost just to get a Deserted Temple for my Skull Island deck, so Grunn, the Lonely King has a place to crash at night? Maybe...
December 28, 2021 8:36 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #5
Niko9 - they definitely design cards to push sets and there will always be power creep. However, commander has provided a space for subpar cards and sub optimal deck building. It takes quite awhile for cards to truly phase out.
December 28, 2021 8:47 p.m.
Grubbernaut says... #6
In commander, the cost of inconsistency is more games where you can't do anything meaningful. With EDH games being so long, to me, that really is just a waste of time - on either side. It feels bad to have it happen to me, and feels bad to have it happen to an opponent. Being an incredibly busy adult, it feels like I'm losing what little time I've already set aside to have fun. I'd never play a video game I knew I had a significant chance of durdling and dying in for the same reason, but I can understand how someone who has more time or patience wouldn't mind that cost for the upside of "weird" or funny games occurring.
December 28, 2021 9:40 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #7
As I've gotten older I'm so focused on being consistent and efficient because I hate time waste/xp waste.
December 28, 2021 9:49 p.m.
psionictemplar says... #8
I will say this as a person who tries to play both competitive and not. The idea behind consistency (imo) lies partly in both a need to make use of the time you have and trying to do what you find fun in the game you are playing. As a deck builder/player I usually find doing the thing I built my deck for the most fun and want to try and make that happen often. While I don't have anything against randomness, most people probably play their deck to do something specific.
December 28, 2021 10:29 p.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #9
Imo, if you like playing consistent decks (which I personally do), you should go for it—if the price to do so is prohibitive, proxy. I just had a lot of fun painting myself a Deflecting Swat and saved myself a new iphone’s worth of money doing so.
December 29, 2021 3:18 a.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #10
You've just perfectly summarized power creep, my friend.
- Awe yiss time to play some magic
- Woah! These lands enter tapped but have TWO colors!
- Oh man this 5mv spell is so cool!
- Hahaha big dumb 7/7
- Hey why can't I win :(
- I keep losing before I even get my plays :((
- It's T4 and everyone else already has 7+ mana and I only have 3 :(((
- ...im tired of losing
- ...maybe im bad at magic...
- ...i hate this game...
- Wait this land enters untapped if I pay 2 life?
- Woah I can get any land I need for just 1 life!?
- Wait a second, this thing only costs TWO MANA!?
- WHAT THE HELL IS THIS Mana Crypt??!
- Woah man I am kicking ass!
- This deck is awesome!
- Magic is so fun and intense!
Power creep. If everyone is playing faster and better cards, so must you - unless you enjoy losing. It sucks and it breeds toxicity, but it's the way of the game. That is why budge communities exist; Less budget means less aggressiveness which means you don't need to rely on +$1,000 decks with 8 copies of every Singleton printed just to have a chance at winning.
I'm perfectly fine with losing to a superior deck or superior plays. What I hate is losing because my deck is built like shit.
I hate when MY stuff is inconsistent. When my time and money are wasted.
Kick my ass all day fairly I don't care. But I'll be damned if I spend $800 on a deck that does "nothing", lol
December 29, 2021 7:16 a.m. Edited.
TypicalTimmy says... #11
- because my deck is built like shit
To clarify, I don't mean I am against budget or fringe. I'm not.
I mean when I build an expensive deck that it can get to T12 and I've still done nothing of value. You know, inconsistency. Poor curves, weak mana, negligence with color fixing, lack of synergy, etc
December 29, 2021 7:22 a.m.
Omniscience_is_life That's extremely true : ) Proxies do solve the problem in a nice little nutshell. Honestly, I don't even really mind spending money on something that seems strictly powerful or super cool, but yeah, something like Deflecting Swat is a slightly better version of things that we've seen a ton of times. Definitely time to get the art set out : )
December 29, 2021 7:47 a.m.
FormOverFunction Seems about perfect to me. I really like how you seem to look at the game as a way to make fun and the card pool as a wide open treasure chest : ) Sometimes a win can just be a smile, and I feel like a haunted house deck is a way to be winning every time.
December 29, 2021 7:58 a.m.
DragonWolf420 says... #14
Omniscience_is_life a new iphone is not $40 rofl.
December 30, 2021 11:30 p.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #15
DragonWolf420 you're shopping in all the wrong places my friend
December 31, 2021 12:12 a.m.
DragonWolf420 says... #16
Omniscience_is_life uh no, no place is selling a new iphone for $40. maybe the 4 with a cracked screen but not a new model in good condition.
January 2, 2022 4:19 p.m.
Grubbernaut says... #17
I think you're missing the joke, and the point, my dude.
RNR_Gaming says... #2
Depends on your income and how much you enjoy the game. Also, in what capacity you play the game is important too.
MTG cards are almost like stocks - though a tad more volatile in some cases but for the most part you should be able to recoup at least 50-60% of what you put in, if you ever want to sell out. With a little more work and patience 80-90%.
So, with that in mind let's get into the meat and potatoes. If you're just playing in fnm/game days you'll more than likely never break even unless you're borrowing a deck (highly recommend casuals befriending whales and doing this).
Now, if you travel to events and say the top prize is $2500 - the cost of a hotel assuming you split and are by the venue will probably run you $150-200 a night maybe 75 if you stay in a Crappy 1. Then, the cost of the deck which is anywhere from $500-1200 and if you're playing standard it may not cost as much but the decks rotate so it's a new deck every year. So you'd need to WIN the entire event twice for that consistency to be worth it.
Now, my lgs had commander tournments with 10 buy ins and the pay out for 1st was 40-50 so you could 4x or 5x your money - so building a good consistent deck was worth it in this case :)
Basically, it'll always be a net negative but your cards do retain some value and if there are prizes to be won that is the time to drop some cash on better cards :)
December 28, 2021 7:37 p.m.