bracket 5?!?!?! Yeah Right...
The Kitchen Table forum
Posted on Aug. 27, 2025, 10:32 p.m. by theNeroTurtle
I play cEDH and have several of my decks at 100% on the competitive meter on T/O. I realize the meter doesn't mean "too" much in Multi-Play. But, I feel like I understand it well. I am seeing more and more Bracket 5 decks listed recently. But when I view them, they aren't actually bracket 5.
Is it just me or am I misunderstanding the Bracket system? I also use EDHREC, and almost all builds have zero data to support this bracket. So, how do we have this bracket showing up more and more on T/O when the site stander clearly shows that it should be lower based on the deck-list when I evaluate the build?
i should just bracket 5 my decks just because.
Bracket 5 is basically competitive commander (cEDH) decks. cEDH has its own meta that has developed within the scope of everyone playing the most efficient and powerful win conditions they can find. Like legendofa said, the meta can be extremely fast and games can be over in just a couple of turns. Decks for particular commanders tend to be pretty similar, with maybe a handful of different cards between different versions. The refinement process of trying to get a deck as powerful and consistent as possible tends to lead to a pretty high degree of uniformity.
If you want to check if a deck is actually Bracket 5 you can try looking up cEDH lists for that commander and see how it compares. cEDH is getting more popular, especially since proxies of expensive cards are becoming more accepted when not playing within tournaments, so it wouldn't surprise me if there are more cEDH decks being posted. That being said, I think that what a majority of players consider to be competitive tends to fall into Bracket 4 and not 5. You kind of need to experience cEDH a little bit to get an idea for just how differently the games between brackets 4 and 5 play out. cEDH is almost its own distinct format.
August 27, 2025 11:42 p.m.
theNeroTurtle says... #4
I was just joking about doing the wrong hub. As for the brackets holding in cEDH, I have 3 decks that win as early as turn 4 nearly every game and they are still only considered bracket 4 on T/O. So, to see a 5 seems ridiculous.
August 27, 2025 11:56 p.m.
I feel like I should also add that the competitive slider can't actually determine the difference between a bracket 4 or 5 deck. The slider could say 100% competitive and the deck may still not qualify for bracket 5. Meanwhile, actual cEDH decks may not get a 100% competitive rating because it may use one or two unconventional cards that happen to work particularly well with that commander but the algorithm doesn't think are competitive options so it lowers the deck's rating a little.
August 27, 2025 11:57 p.m.
theNeroTurtle says... #6
I have 3 cEDH decks that consistently close the game by turn four 90% of the time. And yet, they are bracket 4. So... to see a 5 on T/O just seems ridiculous.
August 28, 2025 midnight
theNeroTurtle says... #7
I am aware of the issues with the meter. I actually post a disclaimer on most of my builds regarding the meter.
August 28, 2025 12:03 a.m.
I don't mean this in a malicious way... but I really do think ignorance and error plays a huge role in this.
I personally know that especially when I first signed up on this site and was new to playing I tagged all my decks as competitive because in my mind I was really making optimal decklists... but not truly understanding the meaning of meta... because yeah against friends playing "modern" with whatever happens to be in your older brother's shoebox of cards Psychic Possession with Sphinx's Tutelage is BROKEN but when playing at a LGS with people that routinely play and have up to date collections... not so much.
August 28, 2025 12:25 p.m.
theNeroTurtle says... #9
I agree with you 100%.
I have 14 builds and only 4 of the decks are not listed Competitive. I do understand the Meta though. Been an LGS player for 10 years with several of my builds consistently winning early game or being great problem solvers. The others that are listed this way are because they are Stax based. The few that are not listed in this manner are done so because they are clearly late game builds with very little way to respond to problems outside of “some” minor removal.
Even though I mostly build Competitive, I still wouldn’t go so far as to call them Bracket 5. I feel like seeing that Bracket on T/O is merely a Click Bate strategy in my opinion.
With that, how can we be seeing that Bracket more and more, when places like EDHREC don’t even have sufficient data to support recommendations for that bracket?
August 28, 2025 12:50 p.m.
There really isn't a viable solution here... like unless card choices get shown in Red for not having enough supporting data for representation or something... this is where you need to be the judge and have your own insight when browsing "competitive/bracket 5" ect ect...
Take Spell Pierce/Dispel as examples... there was a time where I really thought they were weak cards because Counterspell exists... but in context of a format and what the meta is or even being on the draw or the play only after actually getting in a lot of games/experience did I understand why anyone would ever run those.
Let alone budget choices like for mana base compositions and things of this nature... "get a load of this guy running Temple Garden
s instead of Savannahs"
A lot of it really is just splitting hairs... sure you can feel like your being click baited but you as the viewer need to look at a list with critical thinking too.
August 28, 2025 1:55 p.m.
IMHO the thing that makes a deck Bracket 5 isn't usually it's ability to threaten an early win (the actual fastest deck is the exception), it's the ability to protect that attempt or interfere with opponents' attempts. cEDH decks aren't always fast, but they have to either be the fastest deck or be able to interact with the fastest deck reliably enough that they can compete with it. A Bracket 4 deck can be just as 'strong' as a cEDH list, but it won't win it's share of cEDH games because the deck won't be running enough interaction/Hatebears/won't be quite fast enough.
I agree with everyone saying that lots of people just assume that their best deck is probably competitive with other people's competitive decks. It's not like a neophyte can effectively goldfish a cEDH list to get a feel for it's potential ceiling/floor and relative consistency, meaning that doing so for their own deck would be impossible, and playing only vs a small pool of less competent opponents could delude them further. If it's not particularly easy to learn Commander, it's a pretty big intellectual investment to learn even rudimentary cEDH level skills, so a lot of people who are new to cEDH probably suck at it.
I think it's a lot more likely people are just dumb vs them maliciously pranking you by posting bad decks and marking them Bracket 5 (though I've found decks that I'm sure are trolling, and you could argue I have several troll decks of my own). IMHO you can either laugh at them and move on or you could link them to some basic cEDH stuff. TONS of people mark their low budget kitchen table decks as Legacy, not realizing that Legacy is an astoundingly cutthroat format known for fast combos and harsh countermeasures. The friendlier members on here find those decks and try to give these hapless folks a hand.
August 28, 2025 2:13 p.m.
Crow_Umbra says... #12
Of all the different Brackets, I think Br5, or cEDH decks are the least likely to be "accidentally built". I haven't dabbled in cEDH, but I've lurked on Discords that are more cEDH focused to have a rudimentary idea of what metas are like and what not.
From EDHREC's own Bracket Update article, they summarize in this image the qualifications for each Bracket and clearly show that Br5 is cEDH. I think what some players are still struggling with regarding Brackets is that they're met to help communicate deck building intent, but are instead treating this like a new "Power Level" system.
As I said, you can't "accidentally" build a Br5/cEDH deck, since the builds are intended for specific competitive metas, and are optimized to really cut out as much "fluff" as possible. Although Br4 decks can technically hold their own against Br5 decks, I think the types of optimization for both of those Brackets are still pretty different. Br4 still has some room for "fluff", whereas cEDH/Br5 are optimized to the nth degree in regards to efficiency for game actions. Personally, I think that cEDH should be considered a separate format from the rest of EDH, especially given how different the build styles and intent are.
Even if your deck is "technically a Br4" on paper is your intent for it be built for cEDH? Then you can list it as a Br5, especially if you only intend to play it in cEDH metas, and not "EDH at large".
August 28, 2025 2:44 p.m.
theNeroTurtle says... #13
Makes sense. I've just seen several Bracket 5 builds pop up that aren't even Bracket 4 in my opinion and should actually be a 3. I agree, it shouldn't be a power system, but a meta with cEDH being a different format.
August 28, 2025 2:53 p.m.
Crow_Umbra says... #14
indieinside, I think what you've experienced can probably be chalked up to players not really understanding the Bracket system and treating it like the new "1-10 scale". There will always be some players that intentionally misrepresent their Bracket categorization out of malicious intent, but they're outnumbered by everyone else.
legendofa says... #2
My understanding is that Bracket 5 is for the highest levels of competitive play. If your deck is Bracket 5, it can reasonably and reliably contend with fast stax and hard locks, turn 2 win combos, and other tournament-winning awesomeness.
Maybe people are overestimating their decks. I have no idea what a true Bracket 5 deck looks like; I mostly stay in Brackets 2-3 and sometimes wander into Bracket 4. So I have no idea if this bracket's being used correctly here. But as one of the people who manage the hubs here, I've had to shut several down for persistent misuse. (Team America is a Sultai tempo deck, not a synonym for Jeskai. Cruel Control specifically uses Cruel Ultimatum, and isn't the same as a punisher deck.) It's easy to unknowingly (or knowingly) misrepresent a deck.
On a related note, whether or not you're serious, please don't put decks in the wrong hubs just to prove a point. It just makes a mess.
August 27, 2025 11:10 p.m. Edited.