Ganged up on
General forum
Posted on Jan. 24, 2014, 11:34 a.m. by Hallowed_Titan
At the risk of sounding like a bitch(hope I don't) here's my slight issue: Every Thursday night my group meets up to play, about 6 of us. We play multiplayer usually, sometimes 1v1 circuits. But whenever we play multi I get immediately double teamed. I pretty much trained them all up and taught them, I usually still never lose 1v1 to them. Its to the point they even tell me they are going to kill me first because everything I do is "scary". Its getting rather irritating to die in about 5 turns and sit there being a judge for about an hour or 2 until the game ends. While I have fun hanging out, its my 1 night a week to sling cards with them. What do you all think? Am I just being a bitch about it?
Yeah, that used to happen to me a lot with my old playgroup. You could try making it into an archenemy game, so that at least you aren't at such a severe disadvantage. Otherwise, talk to them about it. What exactly are you doing that is so scary, and can you change? Maybe build a (slightly) worse deck, maybe limit some of your cards, maybe offer to switch decks with someone.
But no, it's not fun being ganged up on week after week.
January 24, 2014 11:41 a.m.
umlweatherman says... #4
Do you play by far the most superior deck every time?
If so, then they probably should gang up on you.
If you deck is on par with theirs, they really need to set aside the grudge at the beginning of the match and only gang up once you do something "scary"
January 24, 2014 11:43 a.m.
beakedbard says... #5
It always happens people target who they see as the biggest threat and you taught them all how to play so they'll assume you to be more powerful than them. I had the same when i started off as well i finally got round to buying myself cards for a good deck and then i got targeted non-stop. Its annoying as hell but its just the way it goes in multiplayer games everyone targets whoever they see as the biggest threat. There's three choices accept they'll target you, build another deck they won't target as much or stop playing multiplayer games with them. I agree its really lame when people do that though.
January 24, 2014 11:48 a.m.
beakedbard says... #6
Another suggestion start playing Archenemy with them if they are going to all target you anyway.
January 24, 2014 11:49 a.m.
umlweatherman says... #7
Or if you have 6 of you, perhaps playing Emperor
January 24, 2014 11:51 a.m.
SharuumNyan says... #8
How about build a cube and do cube draft instead of constructed? That way you all start out even, and they won't see you as a big threat.
January 24, 2014 11:57 a.m.
lord_of_the_snakes says... #9
This used to happen to me a lot too, I would play 3 person 60 card deck pod with my friends, and they would gang up on me. The best thing to do if they keep ganging up on you and won't stop is to start using cards like Blood Tithe and Exsanguinate , to gain life and hurt them all at the same time, especially in larger games. Remember, in multiplayer, control trumps aggro every time
January 24, 2014 11:58 a.m.
Hallowed_Titan says... #10
My decks are on my page, the 2 that gang up on me have a couple of decks that are on par with a few of mine. Its the same 2 every game. And we do normally play empires with a realm of influence so its not a free for all. The only kinda bullshit deck I use at times is a multiplayer Exsanguinate deck. I play cut throat 1v1 with them but way more relaxed multi.
January 24, 2014 11:59 a.m.
Hallowed_Titan says... #11
Usually 1 plays aggro and the other control and then they just pound on me. Ignoring everyone elses board.
January 24, 2014 12:01 p.m.
megawurmple says... #12
I'm not sure whether or not any actual formats play this, but you could play with each player having a "sphere of influence", so to speak. For example, you can only attack or target players to either side of you, and can only target creatures those players control. I think that's how it works anyway. You could also change where your area of influence is. One week, you can only interact with players next to you, the next you can only interact with the two players immediately to your right. That way, you can't just have everyone ganging up on you.
January 24, 2014 12:04 p.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #13
I'd agree with try playing Emperor or something goofy like three-headed giant or just three-man teams. Emperor forces an "unequal" position onto each player which can make it hard to judge the relative effectiveness under equal circumstances of each player's deck, and I would play something silly like three-headed-giant to force a "balanced" team and show that you are not considerably more effective than your two teammates.
If you do not think you are that much more capable of them, they will realize this when you do not overshadow your teammates. It is natural to think of the person that taught them to play as being better, regardless of the reality of it.
If you really ARE that much more efficient or effective, or at least tend to give the impression of this, try something sly like asking for "help" or "input" in a new deck design, base it mostly off their ideas, and play them.
January 24, 2014 12:05 p.m.
Hallowed_Titan says... #14
We do play that Titan. My previous comment says so : )
January 24, 2014 12:06 p.m.
megawurmple says... #15
Sorry, I started typing my comment before you finished typing yours.
January 24, 2014 12:08 p.m.
TheAmazingSalsa says... #16
My cousin has the same problem... we've been playing together for 12 years, and he runs a mono green deck that's surprisingly really good, being able to drop loads of big creatures in just a couple of rounds, and he only needs about 3/4 turns to do it, so whenever we play multi, he's the immediate threat, so we prefer taking him out before dealing with the rest... So we basically set up a rule that you can only attack the opponent with the highest life, so you're forced to distribute the damage you'll do instead of just hitting 4 Lava Axe s on just one target...It makes for a really fun game... and a rather fair one.
January 24, 2014 12:08 p.m.
I know I'm just echoing previous posts, but do they instantly come after you or do they only do so once you've played some nasty early game threat? I've learned from playing with friends that subtlety is the key to winning in an MP match. If you're playing something flashy that can kill in three turns, then yeah, I can understand it. But if they're attacking you just because you're you and could play some game-breaking combo, then yeah, that's definitely worth talking with them about. My brother has a red deck wins deck that's unbelievably annoying to play against and can generally kill you by your fourth or fifth turn, so something like that I wouldn't necessarily be against teaming up on (I'd do it anyway just out of spite for red), but just the idea of ganging up on someone because they're "better" or "more experienced" than you are isn't what I'd call fair or fun. Might be worth a talk with them as long as you're not pulling out a turn one Emrakul or Jin-Gitaxias or something.
January 24, 2014 12:26 p.m.
RussischerZar says... #18
If you run stuff like Exsanguinate I can see why they're ganging up on you. That card, along with Debt to the Deathless and Comet Storm and similar have received an unspoken ban in my multiplayer playgroup. Pretty much all cards and combos where you can win out of nowhere against everyone else on the table are considered to be lame and therefore no one plays them, or ganks up on the people that actually do play them, resulting in people not playing them again. :P
January 24, 2014 12:34 p.m.
Blizzicane says... #19
I stop playing multiplayer free for all games for this reason its annoying when people gang up on you and it always happens to be me for some reason so I just 1v1 or 2v2 now. The only time I would play free for all now is in a EDH game. :/
January 24, 2014 4:04 p.m.
Come to think of it, I actually have great luck when I play multiplayer. Most of the guys I taught to play like me too much to attack unless I'm the last guy, and many of the more experienced players are worried that I'll return the favor and wipe them out once I get my ultimate Johnny combo going. It's only after I have my wincon out that they gang up on me, but by then it's usually too late.
I tell myself I'm pulling a Fistful of Dollars move by letting them kill each other, but in reality it's probably just that I'm not worth killing yet, so they take out the more immediate threats.
January 24, 2014 4:12 p.m.
I'm pretty much the exact opposite. I play B/U and B/R/U and sit quietly in the corner while behaving as close to Chaotic Neutral as I can. I'm not an immediate threat so I tend to stick around for a while. I watch my opponents take part in a slug fest until I'm ready to swoop in and steal the win. It happens quite often in my player group.
January 24, 2014 4:21 p.m.
KrosanTusker says... #22
Poor Kittacus... we often find ourselves ganging up on him because his Soul Sisters get out of hand quickly in multiplayer.
I agree, it's not fun to be ganged up on, especially if you know you're not the big threat.
January 24, 2014 4:59 p.m.
megawurmple says... #23
KrosanTusker, when we play multiplayer, very little ganging up is involved. Generally, myself and Kittacus will play 1v1 for a little while as you set up your defenders to ramp into some obscure blue fatty, and by the time you actually get one out, Kittacus is dead and I have to play another 1v1 match against you.
January 24, 2014 6:10 p.m.
just tell them the truth. that Magic is starting to get less fun every week because they keep ganging up on you. i would also suggest the same - 3v3 or 'sphere of influence'
January 25, 2014 7:22 a.m.
I tried to talk to people about it once or twice and got hit with "It wasn't because it was you - it was because of X threat that you had" and "It's just that you need to learn to make better plays - you made X and Y mistake that could have made a difference". I think there is some truth to that, but I also think I can run more Sun Titan and Lightning Greaves . Doing this made it so that I didn't necessarily win in those multiplayer gang-ups - but I stay in it.
When people get that kind of groupish thinking and start to gang up - I have only had luck with two things:
- Focus them on a bigger threat than yourself
- Take it as a challenge and adapt your decks under the assumption that it will happen every time.
I have had this experience simultaneous to not showing up at the LGS much lately - but it really has more to do with work schedules and life getting busy. I have known all along here for the past few months that I am probably looking at laying low on MTG until the summer when I am not working and taking a class and applying for jobs (and one of taxes / obamacare - holiday parties etc. - interviews - conventions) all at once.
January 25, 2014 7:42 a.m.
Hallowed_Titan says... #26
Thanks for all the great comments.
Let me clear up a few things, we usually play 5-6 player games with a "sphere" of influence of 1, meaning everyone can effect up to 1 spot both left and right. The friends on either side of me are usually the same two(the better ones in the group other than myself). I don't really play broken shit, sometimes my multiplayer Exsanguinate deck, but it usually doesnt matter to them what I play, they'll gang up on me regardless. None of my other decks are really broken. I think it's because they don't have as much card knowledge as me, they've been playing for only a few years where I have been playing for more than 10. I feel that they feel everything I play is going to lead to their demise(isn't that the point?). But yeah, that's my thought. Thanks for reading/posting. I'll try out some of the suggestions.
January 26, 2014 9:23 a.m.
@ cakrause86 my solution to this situation is to play a 'weaker deck' for the fun of it. There are some aspects to making a deck that you know won't win to be really fun. I've got a deck that revolves around Possibility Storm + Scrambleverse + Warp World it's about 130 cards with a lot of big creatures and a ton of mana ramp. put in some Howling Mine s, and Rites of Flourishing to give them incentive to keep you around. It's fun, and I know I'm not going to win, and my play group looks at it as a deck that acts like a planes chase deck.
If you have trained them all, then do something that would change the game state, yet be fun for everyone. Your protoges would appreciate your willingness to help them all during the game to just make it fun; think of your multi-player deck as a fun inducing deck that everyone else would like Sometimes winning the game isn't actually fun, but watching the card interactions can be a far more appealing goal in a casual game rather than dominating and winning.
January 26, 2014 11 a.m.
Hallowed_Titan says... #28
Fair enough. But I don't think I have any "group hug" type cards. Maybe a few.
January 26, 2014 11:08 a.m.
Be careful, though. I also started doing the "range of competitiveness set of decks" thing and all that happened is that when I picked a goofy one, they railed on me! Then they said that "I shouldn't leave myself open". So if you do pick a weaker deck, it should be weak on offense but not defense (if they have already identified you as a person to gang up on).
Make sure to have lots of deterrents but not too many threats, that is probably the best way to go about making "the weaker deck" when attempting to curb the gang-ups.
You may also need protection for the deterrents. And if there were any games where you really scared them by one-shotting someone or doing something really unexpected or playing lots of counterspells or having a surprise Grafted Exoskeleton show up ... it is surprisingly hard for them to forget! I thought that going every other week would work but it really doesn't. If you make a strong enough impression they won't forget it no matter what you play or for how long you play it! At least that has been my experience.
I still run the "decks along a spectrum of the strength range" just for when a friend may be piloting / building a new deck and I don't want to discourage them from working on it - or if there are new players. But running that kind of deck amongst those who had a reason already to gang up on me didn't really get them off my tail LOL.
Good luck! It may be worth a try as those kinds of decks can be handy to keep around for other reasons.
January 26, 2014 11:10 a.m.
Hallowed_Titan says... #30
@r3v13w, I think their ganging up on me comes from me crushing any of them 1v1 like 80% of the 1v1 matches.
I try to tell them I don't play hyper aggressive like that in multiplayer but they don't seem to notice.
January 26, 2014 11:15 a.m.
If your situation is like mine, there is nothing you can say and no deck you can play to change their mind. For multiplayer, I just roll in as many Lightning Greaves , Asceticism , and Mizzium Skin etc. as I can fit into the deck. You should see their faces when I stick a Mask of Avacyn on an Indomitable Archangel with a few other arties on my board. They look, they frown, they look again but NOOOO!!! YOU HAVE TO GO AFTER SOMEONE ELSE THIS TIME THANKS. That's how you might have to start thinking, too. It is harder to win ultimately when there is so much defense clogging up your deck, but if you have become the target you won't get to play unless you up that defense.
I also tend to deliver some kick-butts in 1v1 (although not all the time - it might be close to your 80% but is probably more like 66% - I tend to go in streaks, though, and it is more like how many games in a row that I handed it to them, how hard did I smack them, how many counterspells did I play in a game, and how much did they not see something coming at all that makes them remember and go after me first ... every time).
January 26, 2014 11:30 a.m.
Hallowed_Titan says... #32
Haha, I feel your pain. I might just have to put the ole hexproof/you cant touch this deck back together.
January 26, 2014 11:36 a.m.
For the longest time, I would be ganged up on in multiplayer games because I usually make the best decks. Meanwhile while everyone is focusing me down, one person would just durdle and build up an army to just wreck everyone else after I'm gone. Eventually they realized that they would never win if they focused me anyway, so it all worked out in the end.
However our EDH games are still very cutthroat. From the beginning everyone gangs up on the biggest threat and then all hell breaks loose as alliances are broken and faces defiled.
January 26, 2014 12:45 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #34
Have you tried to help them better their decks, and their play? Explain the reasons you are more dominant, and how they could play/build like that.
January 26, 2014 1:19 p.m.
You said the 2 that gang up on you usually sit on either side of you. Sounds like they come in with a plan in place to eliminate you early. Have you tried to switch up seating so that they are not always in the position to knock you out immediately? Maybe have each of them sit an extra spot or 2 away to give you a chance to stay in longer and maybe have enough board presence to at least try to defend yourself when the players between you get eliminated and you're in position to become their target.
January 26, 2014 1:41 p.m.
Rhinowarrior says... #36
Make a our purphoros control with a boatload of tokens to chump block. Burn each opponent with his ability.
January 27, 2014 11:28 p.m.
MadScientist says... #37
Build a deck with the sole purpose of surviving the gang up and beat them all a couple of rounds.
Then give them the option of continuing to play against that deck or if they agree to not gang up you will bring out a deck more suited to the group play environment.
You could always play giant games that way you are teamed up with another player instead of a free for all.
Rhadamanthus says... #2
No, you're not being unreasonable. I think it would be fine to just come out and say something after the end of the next game where this happens.
"Listen, I understand that you guys think I'm the biggest threat and you want to make sure I don't suddenly take over the game, but in multiplayer it kind of sucks to get knocked out first every time and then spend the rest of the night not playing Magic. Maybe we need to rethink our strategy for how to handle threats during a game. What do you guys think?"
January 24, 2014 11:41 a.m.