Too much variety?
Deck Help forum
Posted on May 7, 2021, 2:56 p.m. by VinDiesel9999
So this is my first post. I used to play magic with friends and just recently got back into it. This base deck of mine has got plenty of wins and is currently undefeated among my friends which is why I am here--because I know its only an alright deck and have run of people who can give me advice.
TL;DR I want to keep the Dragon theme, but looking at my deck list it is all over the place--and the instants & sorceries in particular are hodgepodge of cards I've collected.
Any idea of cards I replace in this deck to stream line it etc...
VinDiesel9999 says... #3
I don't think I am willing to spend more than 5 dollars per card, so no Mana Drain for instances. I lucked out and found Cyclonic Rift in a booster pack.
Still open to suggestions, and I will check out cards under $10.
Does anything seem completely out of place, like Blustersquall for instance?
May 7, 2021 4:32 p.m.
wallisface says... #4
Ok, so there is obviously a lot that can be done to improve the deck, and at a glance:
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there are too many high-cmc spells you'll be struggling to cast given the current landbase. Generally in 1v1 matches you want to limit the amount of cards you field that have cmc4 or greater. If you're playing in a group-format, this will vary.
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there is too much inconsistency (i.e too many 1-ofs, not enough 4-ofs). Aim to get playsets of the best cards, and ditch everything else. The best way to start off is to choose the 9 cards you want to see in the deck, and get playsets (or almost-playsets) of those. And then tune from there (a few 1-of and 2-ofs are ok, but it really depends on the card and why)
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Following from the point above, your deck seems to lack direction. You have some creatures that care about casting spells, some that care about making spells cheaper, some that are just dragons or dragon-orientated. Try to think of the one theme you want your deck to portray and go down that route. Having too many things going on, your deck will probably find it hard to get coherent strategies going at times. My personal thought would be to get a playset of Sprite Dragon and base the deck around that (it's a strong card that leans very closely into competitive formats, if you wanted to start steering your deck that direction).
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you're above 60 cards; a deck playing at its best always cuts back to 60. It may sound dumb when you're currently only playing 1 over this number - but it's still a concession, and something every deckbuilder should be aiming to avoid.
HOWEVER, there is more going on here than just "tuning your deck". You mention that this deck is already undefeated in your current playgroup. You should definitely consider the implications of making a deck that's already your groups "tier-0" deck, stronger. Even making a few small tweaks to give this deck consistency, is going to make it hugely more dangerous - and it may become something your group doesn't want to play against, because it's just too big of a crushing.
If your intentions are to just keep playing casual games with the same group of people, my advise would be to wait until this deck suffers a defeat or two before upgrading it. The most important thing in casual games is that everyone is on a semi-equal playing field, and having fun playing - and if someone has a deck that's just vastly stronger than everything else there, games can stop being fun pretty quickly.
If you do want to make this deck as strong as possible, you should help to ensure your groups decks get stronger also. The best games of magic are ones where everyone has a fighting chance.
May 7, 2021 5:53 p.m.
VinDiesel9999 says... #5
Excellent! Those were all concerns I thought of but it helps having a second opinion--since obviously I'm biased.
I am going to have to help my new group regardless, since my deck is already as you said: "hugely dangerous -- something your group doesn't want to play against, because it's just too big of a crushing." Keep in mind they bought pre-made mono decks--so it's not really an accomplishment; I have been play testing my deck against izzet dragons and I do not even stand chance.
Speaking of, izzet dragons was the deck that originally inspired me and I see they follow the rules of thumb you outlined above.
You gave me an idea, I will keep the lightning bolts and the powerful cards in the sidebar when I play my friends. Shock and Searing Spear sound be a better fit for the group.
Would it make sense to split this deck up into one deck that is more classic Izzet and the other that is Dragon themed? (Make them both 60 cards).
I feel like I have two good deck's smashed into one sub-par deck.
Thanks for the feedback!
May 7, 2021 6:25 p.m.
VinDiesel9999 says... #6
Looking at it, my deck seems more like a EDH Commander (lite), with all the one offs.
May 7, 2021 6:28 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #7
Come to the dark side of questionable EDH theme decks!!!
May 7, 2021 6:37 p.m.
wallisface says... #9
As far as your comment of “Would it make sense to split this deck up into one deck that is more classic Izzet and the other that is Dragon themed? (Make them both 60 cards).” - yes definitely! I’ve done that myself a few times when i’ve realised my deck’s doing too many things at once, so its a good approach.
May 7, 2021 7:03 p.m.
VinDiesel9999 says... #10
Here are my two attempts and at solving the problem: it's modular so I can swap out 15-20 cards to change the theme while keeping the base stuff like lands, etc.
May 7, 2021 7:44 p.m.
VinDiesel9999 says... #11
May 8, 2021 11:29 a.m.
wallisface says... #12
They do look better, yes. I think the main thing they both still suffer from is having too many 1-ofs and 2-ofs to be consistent
May 8, 2021 6:12 p.m.
VinDiesel9999 says... #13
I tried making a deck with more consistency: IDD4/IDD4 Budget
May 8, 2021 7:31 p.m.
wallisface says... #14
I notice your non-budget build is listed as “Modern”, but there are a bunch of cards there not legal fir modern.
Here are some thoughts on these decks as a whole:
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Decks tend to perform a lot stronger when they can cast stuff quickly. Because of that its normally advised not to run a high number of cards cmc4 or above. As a general rule of thumb, i try to not run more than 4-5 cards that cost 4cmc or more. The amount you’re running here is certainly too high.
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have you considered options to get more profit from all the goblins you’re spewing out? Stuff like Impact Tremors might help?
May 8, 2021 7:52 p.m.
wallisface says... #15
“Skred Red” is a competitive modern deck centred around playing dragons and stalling the game out long enough to actually get them into play. Maybe do a google for budget versions of that?
May 8, 2021 7:59 p.m.
VinDiesel9999 says... #16
Oh, listing it as modern was a mistake. What do guys think about this deck I found? izzet dragons?
May 9, 2021 1:39 p.m.
VinDiesel9999 says... #17
I think I get it now! In magic you want to have more 4 of or 3 of cards, specifically cards that cost 2,3,4 to cast, but when it comes to cards that cost 5,6 or 7, those are generally the cards you have 1 of or 2 of depending on your strategy.
So I would want only 2 Hypersonic Dragon or 1 Niv-Mizzet, Parun but 4 of a card like Dragonlord's Servant , Guttersnipe , or Thunderbreak Regent .
I think want you're trying to tell me is that problem with my deck is I run 4 high cost dragons, but then when it comes to my low cost instants or creatures--there is too much diversity for it to be consistent.
I guess I still remember playing magic way back in middle school, when games were long and drawn out so the goal was to play as many large creatures as possible.
It seems that as you progress you games are so quick you generally won't be casting four+ 5 cost cards, you usually want to win before that happens.
Ex. I probably won't play multiple Predator Dragon s, but I will probably play multiple Sprite Dragon s. So I want more of the latter...
May 9, 2021 2:23 p.m.
wallisface says... #18
Yeah exactly that. A game of magic may only last 4-5 turns, so getting the mana to cast the big stuff can be tricky, and having the time to cast multiple big cards is even harder.
May 9, 2021 3:59 p.m.
VinDiesel9999 says... #19
That clears a lot up thank you. I chalk it up to never playing competitively and having some games drag out 15+ turns.
Balaam__ says... #2
A lot of the possible suggestions will depend on whether or not you intend to keep it as a budget deck. Fetch and/or Shock lands, for instance, could speed things up—but they’re quite pricey.
May 7, 2021 3:36 p.m.