Would You Allow Shadowborn Apostle?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Aug. 8, 2013, 3:54 p.m. by SevenSeasAgo
It occurred to me that although EDH is a singleton format, Shadowborn Apostle and Relentless Rats still say you can have any number of copies in your deck. And according to rule 101.1, the card effects take precedence over game rules. This means you can run as many as you want. Of course, since EDH is a casual format, it's up to the play group. So my question to players is, would you allow people in your play group to play these two cards? Shadowborn Apostle isn't as strong considering Griselbrand is banned and with all the ramping in EDH and all the tutoring in black, Demons aren't very hard to get out. But it's still powerful in numbers. Let me know what you guys think about this.
MagicalHacker says... #3
I don't think people should have a choice in whether to "allow" Shadowborn Apostle to work this way. It's either banned or it's not. Last time I checked, it's not banned.
Also, Thrumming Stone is a great card with either of these two creatures.
August 8, 2013 4:03 p.m.
no reason to not allow it...even if they turn 3 grisslebrand...most kills / exile cards are 1-2 cmc. I'd have a full hand and they'd have 3 land 0 in hand 0 on board...
August 8, 2013 4:09 p.m.
Well we're talking about house rules here
I'd allow it, unless there was some kind of brokenly consistent combo to get unbeatable demons out. Thrumming Stone is good, but it's not broken. The best demon is arguably Griselbrand and it's already banned; I don't think a deck full of apostles and good demons needs banning.
August 8, 2013 4:10 p.m.
Why ban something due to house rules if it can be dealt with with fair ease? Even in Rat EDH decks, field bombs and Tormod's Crypt equivalents are plentiful.
August 8, 2013 4:35 p.m.
yea, i just mentioned grisslebrand b/c he's talking house rules.
regardless demons in general aren't overpowered and it would be fine...however, i'm sure there's some sort of fun combo with them Immortal Servitude or Living Death and Coat of Arms / Door of Destinies
August 8, 2013 4:53 p.m.
It's not really a case of allowing those two cards. The text on the card trumps the game rules, so you can run as many of those two cards as you want with no problem.
August 8, 2013 4:59 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #9
The worst thing I've seen is using Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker as the commander to continue to get awesome cards out, but still not broken.
August 8, 2013 5:21 p.m.
If you read the card set FAQs on the Magic website, "Shadowborn Apostle's first ability lets you ignore only the "four-of" rule. It doesn't let you ignore format legality.In Commander and other singleton formats, Shadowborn Apostles first ability lets you ignore the one-of rule."
August 8, 2013 5:39 p.m.
Technically, disallowing Shadowborn Apostle would be the ACTUAL house rule, since disallowing it would be overriding the game rules.
August 8, 2013 6:55 p.m.
Yes, I believe that's the point; a house rule banning Shadowborn Apostle . The OP just worded it differently, asking if within house rules, we'd allow or not.
August 8, 2013 7:37 p.m.
SevenSeasAgo says... #13
Goody is right. I must have said it wrong. I'm asking if you would allow the cards within your play group.
August 8, 2013 8:22 p.m.
There's no reason not to. Have you seen the crazy things that a Commander deck can do? Shoving 20 Apostles into a deck and hoping to draw a few to make a demon does not strike me as remotely powerful in the least. All it seems to do is give a player an opportunity to remove good cards from his deck for the chance to...what, play a Reaper from the Abyss ?
Don't forget that most demons are undercosted because they have downsides. By the time you get six Shadowborn Apostle onto the battlefield in a Commander game, you'd probably be at least close to ready to cast the demon of choice naturally, without even wasting 19 card slots. (And black is the tutor color, so it's not like it's a problem to go find them either.)
August 8, 2013 9:16 p.m.
sh33tsamich says... #15
Lord of the Void Immortal Servitude and Sire Of Insanity is best way to go with shadow born.
erabel says... #2
I'd allow it. It's a bit of a tricky build-around, even when you're allowed as many as you want; and with the prevalence of sweepers and such in EDH, it'd be easy enough to get rid of the little things or the player using them before he/she/both/other can pull off getting a good enough demon or two.
August 8, 2013 3:56 p.m.