Simic versus Azorius
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on April 22, 2015, 10:53 a.m. by JohnnyBaggins
Hey everyone,
I'm a limited and standard player who wants to get into EDH. I want to build a two-colour deck and I decided that it's either Azorius or Simic. For Simic I'm torn between a sweet creature deck around Momir Vig, Simic Visionary and a counter madness deck around Prime Speaker Zegana. For Azorius, I actually only consider Grand Arbiter Augustin IV and shape a control-styled deck around him. While I'm budgetish, I have no probelm investing a few bucks into the deck and keep reshaping it once it's there.
Now here's my questions: Are the Simic decks even considerably viable in EDH? Do they stand a chance? I don't need to win all the time, but I'd enjoy going into games knowing there's a decent chance of me winning. I assume that most controlling Grand Arbiter decks are viable, but also a prime target in multiplayer games?
What's your experineces? What's your hints? Is there a "less hated" commander to builda controlling deck around? Like, for example, Ojutai from DTK or Silumgar from FRF? Or is control generally not viable in Multiplayer EDH? If so, what kind of decks would Grand Arbiter Augustin IV sit out?
Thanks in advance!
ThisIsBullshit says... #3
And by stop the hate I mean keep people from wrecking you t4.
April 22, 2015 11:07 a.m.
DeathChant17 says... #4
Grand arbiter is more of a 1 vs 1 commander in my opinion. Get him out, stall out with counterspells and lock down the field till you draw into your win con.
I do use him in my Esper deck, he is effective, but in multiplayer he isn't around long as he receives a lot of hate.
I'd go with your Simic commander, mana ramp, card draw, unblockable, counterspells, big creatures, trample, and more! Plus you get to tutor off his ability! I like playing control, but straight control is boring. I think a Simic deck would be more fun.
April 22, 2015 11:11 a.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #5
Disclaimer: I'm not a super competitive player. A different environment, depending on the meta, may cause you to face a slightly different reality.
That said, Control is very relevant. Of the typical aggro/control/combo trio, aggro has the most trouble; it doesn't scale up as easily and struggles with dealing with multiple opponents, compared to control (frequently has spells saying "all players", "all opponents" or "any opponents") or combo (frequently doesn't care about any specific opponent) operate. Controlling the heat you generate is very important though to playing control I think; Grand Arbiter Augustin IV generates a lot of heat, in some metas more than others, as players try to deal with you taxing them. You're more likely to have to expend resources defending yourself if you play him seriously than with your other options you named. But he's totally viable. Just need to figure out your "wincon" and if he's important to playing it.
Simic is very strong in EDH in general; it tends to ramp very fast into big plays. Blue is the "strongest" color (more like, has the most varied pool of viable options) for various reasons and green fuels it well. Stuff like Prophet of Kruphix are great in semi-competitive environments (I think she's less practical in more competitive metas).
In general: try to avoid making enemies of opponents you can't handle (until you can), try to make sure what you play actually contributes to winning, and don't be afraid to experiment.
April 22, 2015 11:11 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #6
Simic is indeed viable, but you should be aware that it generally wins by combo. The shell itself is combo-control. This isn't optimal for all playgroups. Sonic also allows for an aggressive control build around Edric, Spymaster of Trest.
Azorius can play pillow fort, tax, or traditional control.
You can, of course, vary your approach and do something outside of the norm, but these are the most typical approaches.
April 22, 2015 11:12 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #8
Autocorrect, why must you do this?
Although "sonic" does kind of work as a descriptor for Edric. At least when it's compared to a control shell.
April 22, 2015 11:19 a.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #9
Edric, however, is banned as a commander in 1V1, right?
April 22, 2015 11:21 a.m.
ThisIsBullshit says... #10
Yes, he's banned in Duel commander. And for good reason too lol
April 22, 2015 11:32 a.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #11
Excuse some of the questions I'm asking here, since I'm really new to Multiplayer Magic the Gathering in general, but: Is it possible to build a deck that works very fine in both, multiplayer and duel commander? Because that's clearly what I'm aiming at. Or could I just, say, build a deck that does one given thing very well with Edric in Multiplayer and then swap the commander for Multiplayer and hope it works out? It probably isn't that easy, right?
My idea for simic was actually building something that resolves around creatures and stomping the opponent while trying to set some shenanigans up with Hornet Queen. Bounce her, double her and all that good stuff. Classic example would be 80 tokens in one turn with Hornet Queen on the field, Parallel Lives/Doubling Season/Primal Vigor out and then Rite of Replication-kicker the queen to get 10 Queens and therefore 80 tokens. It's just an idea I had, it's likely impossible to do. I find something like this quite flavorful for Simic, a bunch of scientists who fiddled around and suddenly... bees. You get the point.
You saying Simic wins via finite combos somehow alienates me, I don't like winning with infite combos. Anything but a Johnny-Type player.
Well, anyways, it will be quite tough to decide...
April 22, 2015 11:48 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #12
Regular and French (Duel) Commander are very different beasts. You can try to build a deck that rides the line between them, but you'll likely end up with the "jack of all trades, master of none" issue where the deck doesn't particularly excel at either format.
The ban list disparity is really what gets you. French doesn't allow you to play some of the best ramp in the format, and there are some important utility cards missing.
April 22, 2015 11:52 a.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #13
Playing simic tokens/counters is hardly impossible. It may not be top-tier competitive but token builds do okay. Your first foray will not likely be bulletproof whatever you do, and you'll always do better playing what you want to play.
April 22, 2015 12:07 p.m.
Simic all the way! Yes I'm biased.
If you're looking for a casual deck, I cannot suggest Momir Vig, Simic Visionary enough. Even if you're getting a little more competitive, he's a blast. I've had mine for years. But if you are going to build a more competitive build, I'd go for Edric, Spymaster of Trest. He's one of the most degenerate commanders ever, and he's awesome. Even Prime Speaker Zegana is awesome.
Ultimately, it's up to you. I hope you figure it out, man.
April 22, 2015 1:50 p.m.
libraryjoy says... #15
I haven't built one, but I love looking at lists with Experiment Kraj as the commander. Great for shenanigans.
April 22, 2015 5:35 p.m.
magic_monicle says... #16
I can also vouch for simic power. My one and only commander deck is prime speaker zegana and she is pretty busted. I almost feel bad playing against some of my friends with more casual decks. They just get steam rolled. I'm thinking of building a more casual deck that isn't as competitive to make it more fun for others. Not to say the deck is invincible but being able to ramp and control is very nice. And once your card drawing engine gets online it's basically over.
In the end just do what is fun to you. Don't listen to cry baby's who think you have to play certain cards
April 23, 2015 12:43 p.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #17
I decided for Simic around Vig. Even though I might still use Zegana. I'm currently brewing. Anyone caring, Simic Laboraroties is where I brew.
ThisIsBullshit says... #2
If you can stop the hate, Grand Arbiter is a blast to play. Make it Stax and lock people out, then combo off or something.
April 22, 2015 11:06 a.m.