Instant-speed Artifact/Enchantment Removal
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Feb. 10, 2014, 9:04 a.m. by nobu_the_bard
I've been locked out of EDH games a couple times lately, by combos like Isochron Scepter + Orim's Chant , Curse of Exhaustion + Knowledge Pool , or lost to combos like Exquisite Blood + Sanguine Bond , plus variations of the above. It seems this is how my local environment is beginning to respond to the glut of aggro decks that were dominating previously. Many of these decks are Esper decks.
Also, my monowhite equipment deck, over here Kemba, Feline Weaponsmith EDH, has been shut down by Null Rod and a similar enchantment whose name escapes me (in addition to some of the above lockouts). It has some removal for this kind of thing but it's not working out well; I can't get it when I need it.
I'm trying to work out how to deal with it; in my monowhite deck, for example, I had been using Dust to Dust for removal (its speed and target limitations are becoming a problem), and Return to Dust has been great, but they haven't been enough. I often find myself fighting these things with no effective response. I was thinking about trying out some things like Abolish or Banishing Stroke , and I was excited to discover Illumination while I was looking for things.
Does anyone have any suggestions for different approaches to take, though? I'm sure there's a better way to deal with these sorts of things, but I haven't thought of one. I'm mostly working on my monowhite deck right now but I have decks in all five colors (though only one uses blue), I just have mostly have studied the white options. I don't mind hearing about options in other colors, particularly in black, as I don't know of anything at all in black to deal with these. I personally hate locking people out of the game like this though, so I'd rather not just play these combos themselves as the response.
Disenchant , Revoke Existence , Divine Offering come to mind.
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February 10, 2014 9:46 a.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #4
I appreciate the suggestions guys, I was wondering if there was a different way of dealing with these than just having instants, though. The problem I anticipate is what to do when I have all of these great things when I play another of the old aggro decks that doesn't bother with these tricks.
Divine Offering , I used to use, but it's got a similar problem to Dust to Dust , it's a bit too narrow now, since some of the "i win" or "you lose" combos are entirely enchantment-based. I like Revoke Existence but the problem with these combos I'm having is if I can't respond at instant speed, I may not get another turn. I was hoping to not use boring old Disenchant but I may have to.
February 10, 2014 9:54 a.m.
Stony Silence is a suggestiont it does help the Null Rod problem, but it requires you to rework the deck. Sometimes, the best solution, is to use the most common one. Because the optimal solution in your colors can sometimes cause you to change the deck around to something much different.
February 10, 2014 10:44 a.m.
ShimmerVoid says... #6
Have you tried Oblivion Ring ? Very versatile card to have in EDH.
February 10, 2014 11:58 a.m.
ShimmerVoid says... #7
Whoops. Just realized you wanted an instant speed answer ...
February 10, 2014 11:58 a.m.
Aura of Silence will help slow your opponents down, and also serves as artifact/enchantment removal.
February 10, 2014 12:19 p.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #11
@gufymike: Stony Silence is actually the enchantment version of Null Rod that I forgot the name of. They are identical in function, and don't interfere with each other, so it wouldn't help this specific problem. I had thought about maybe reengineering the decks somehow, yes; the particular deck I was referencing is an equipment-based deck that has difficulty doing this, as I only have two cards that can equip creatures if the artifacts' activated abilities are turned off. I have been reducing the artifact count in many of my other decks where possible to try to discourage the use of those two problem cards against me, and if nothing else, reduce their impact on me. I am seriously addicted to mana rocks though, heh. I appreciate your suggestion a lot though, it confirms what I was thinking about.
@ShimmerVoid: I hadn't tried it because it doesn't seem that effective where I play, but I appreciate the suggestion. I'm probably in the minority in not running and I'll reconsider it if I end up taking out my mass enchantment hate like Tempest of Light .
@Krayhaft: I've thought about Aura of Silence before, I might try it for real. I was worried having it in play might make the response too obvious, but you're right about the taxing part, and it does only affect opponents.
@CalciferDK: Actually, Soltari Visionary is... interesting. Not exactly what I was asking, but not a bad suggestion; it does help prevent enchantment based locks and doubles as a difficult-to-block creature, so it serves dual purposes that mean I still get a use out of it even if it's a non-optimal use (as opposed to getting stuck with Disenchant in my hand against a deck that's just slivers and land). I'll keep it in mind, thank you.
Thanks everyone that commented! :)
What does black do to stop this kind of stuff? Thoughtseize seems... small scale in EDH.
February 10, 2014 5:25 p.m.
Black is actually the worst at artifact/enchantment removal. It has very few cards that can interact with those card types, and of the cards that can, they do so in roundabout ways that are not as effective as other colors' responses.
-Fulcrum says... #2
Return to Dust is my favorite artifact/enchantment kill spell, but there's also stuff like Disenchant and mass removal like Austere Command you might want to try out.
February 10, 2014 9:44 a.m.