no energy commander #mad

Yeah it seems odd that none of the legendaries so far can create or use energy...

Padeem is definitely going into Muzzio, but I don't like him as a commander. Doesn't enable his own ability in any way, but works very well alongside Arcum/Muzzio/Memnarch. Probably tier 4 material.

Oviya is cool, but probably a little worse than Rhys, both in abilities and lack of white (loses token synergies and stax effects). Probably tier 4, but maybe there's interactions I'm missing.

Well her ability is a tap ability so maybe as a way to spam out tokens before Yisaning into a Hoof? idk, first thought is "Neat! but terrible"

Hey guys, I'm semi-new to edh, I started in modern, and I was wondering about Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker's tier. I believe he could move up a tier because:
1. he can be fast
2. he can go infinite
3. he has an alternate game plan (copying creatures with ETB effect for lots of value)
4. he has haste, the relevance of this ability increases as the number of players does

originally I thought that maybe he was in tier 3 because he wasn't good enough for the tier 2 decks, (he's definitely better than Zirilan of the Claw, the other mon-red general I know anything about) and while I agree he'll be fairly low on the tier 2 list I saw Tier 2 has Kallia the Vast and Titania, Protector of Argoth, do these decks have combos that I'm missing?

Answering some arguments made against Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker:
1. Kiki is monored. Kiki is indeed mono-red but I think that we should look at why mono-red is bad and see if this applies to Kiki, the main reason mono-red is bad is because it doesn't run many tutors, while this is a legitimate downside, it is not crippling, Kiki list are ale to run a lot of redundancy in their lists to make up for it.
2. Kiki is just an odd assemblage of bad/untutorable combos that don't overlap, without all 3 combo pieces you just have dead cards. On the contrary Kiki's combos overlap closely generally dividing into 3 categories: Kiki, Sac outlet, etb effects. any combination of those categories should go infinite. Additionally Kiki lists have Less cards that are useless outside of their combo then many decks since sac outlets are good when you have a commander that makes tokens you'll lose anyways (copy, attack/do whatever-with-it, sac for additional value) and the etb effects are generally plenty powerful on their own (Zealous Conscripts is an excellent example.
3. Kiki is bad since all his combos rely on him being on the field. This depends on the build your running, the build that I'm considering making has 1 combo with a lot of redundancy outside of Kiki. Second the fact that we need our commander is less of a downside in Kiki list because Kiki has haste, not having to wait for a board rotation helps mitigate the downside of needing of Kiki on the battlefield.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw it out there and see what your opinions are.

Of course, I (and probably everyone else) would like to see a list before passing judgement.

Thanks for the info on Yisan, the Wanderer Bard. I think that the list Wee_Dragonaut linked is a better primer to link to than the one we currently have as the de facto decklist, mainly because of the exposition.

For easy access:

Current: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/wanderers-song/?cat=cost&sort=

Alternative: http://landdestruction.com/yisan-the-wanderer-bard-edh-deck/

@BaronBS: Funny you should say that. Until a few short weeks ago, Landdestruction's list was the linked deck. However, a consensus was reached that Shaper's list is both more tuned and more up to date. Ultimately better deck won out over better description.

The stax portion really just sends Yisan over the top. An early Tangle Wire/Winter Orb and I can keep a wrath at bay even easier than before, and with Cradle I can power through both of those effects and just Yisan everything I need.

Kalia really doesn't need combos, the ability on a flying creatures pretty insane let's say you get her out turn three turn 4 you can have a balefire dragon out and attacking or a lord of the void plus she's in Mardu which has great colors for removal and protecting her that's why she's tier 2

Question guys, my LGS has Two-Headed Giant EDH tournaments on occasion. Sometimes it's random teammates, thus you can't build decks together.

Other times, you pick your partner, BUT the two teammates can't double up on a Single color. For example, if your partner is running Blue, you can't run Blue. So between the two decks, you only have the five colors available.

What do you guys think would be the most competitive combo when picking your Ally? I believe that Edric, Spymaster of Trest is broken in 2HG. That leaves Mardu colors. Perhaps a Kaalia of the Vast? Queen Marchesa?

Or do you think two other Commanders, (without Edric), would be better for two decks built together?

I think Alesha, Who Smiles at death would be an ideal partner. An aggressive hatebear stax deck would be brutal alongside Edric. Kalia is also good

Alesha would be the better option probably though kaalia could get pretty insane

Alesha would be the better option probably though kaalia could get pretty insane

There aren't any really strong decks in any combination of Black, White, and Red. I would say your best overall option is Sidisi, Undead Vizier. She's extremely glass cannon, she's also one of the fastest decks in the game. Consistent turn 3-4 wins are the norm. Coupled with Edric's impenetrable wall of counterspells and the incidental card advantage he grants you and you should have a solid pair.

I know you'll disagree NarejED but you have got to be one of the best cEDH players around. You are by far my favorite deck builder. I love to bounce my decks off yours to see what we have the same and what we have different.

Back on topic, I think that could work. I'll try to make some deck lists. I want to make both decks so when the tournament comes, I can just find a competent partner and use both of the decks I built. Optimization for 2HG slaying.

Why thank you <3

I know that without NarejED my Meren deck wouldn't be as good as it is. Now to add to the conversation...Or start a new one. IS there any possibility of building a creature heavy deck for tier one play? I see a lot of control and combo but I would be a lot more interested in playing creatures. Is there a commander that suits those needs? Besides Animar?

Animar, Edric, Derevi, Karador, and Yisan are all very soundly creature based decks. No, they aren't traditional "fair" creature based decks as they all try for some sort of combo as is necessary to win fast enough, but their combos and lines of play are strongly grounded in creature-based strategies (Derevi is just creature beatdowns through stax locks).

Hey guys, the Momir Vig, Simic Visionary is fairly out of date. Are we looking for a new one or content with the strategem the current primer outlines(minus the Prophet of Kruphix plan?

i see noyan is t3, is it really that easy to kll people with a inkmoth nexus, or steal creatures with the mirror weave cheese? i feel like he should be moved down. thoght?

Noyan being T3 almost seems like mercy. His ability is irrelevant in most competitive situations.

Also is thassa able to do anything other than hightide? Competitively speaking

Sharuum is easily tier one. Her ability to protect her combo and have it readily available at all times makes her a threat at almost any point in the game.

Except she's 6CMC to cast..