Ways to prevent misuse of hubs.
TappedOut forum
Posted on July 11, 2016, 4:54 p.m. by Sme4
While I was surfing the Hive Mind deck hub today it came to my attention that many of the decks there where not Hive Mind at all and instead there where tons of sliver decks in their place. I am sure that issues like this has popped up all around the site and if we can do anything to stop this from occurring nearly as often if at all.
ducttapedeckbox says... #3
The most common issue that arises with hubs is user perception. What is competitive? What is control? Nearly every hub has a general definition that most consider common knowledge, but that varies from person to person. It is impossible to conform to a set definition as there are always going to be those that disagree - which is completely fine.
To me, the hubs are a tool, not a law. For the most part they can help you sift through the myriad of decks that are on TappedOut, even if a few don't follow your same definition.
July 11, 2016 5:24 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
@yeaGO: Is there a way to set card-specific hubs to actually require that the deck have that card? Or color-specific hubs to require that the deck be those colors?
July 11, 2016 5:59 p.m.
Epochalyptik: The only issue with that is that some tags describe an archetype even if they're referring to a specific card. For example, somebody might have a modern Splinter Twin deck that doesn't actually run it since it's banned, but instead runs Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Pestermite. But a lot of people would still probably think of that as a "twin" deck.
July 11, 2016 6:07 p.m. Edited.
This latest comment leads me to wonder whether some editorialization isn't appropriate, and that we should create new hubs in order to address these confusions. (aka "Twin")
As for hub requirements, yes its possible. But less useful if it leads to think like enpc is saying.
July 11, 2016 6:14 p.m. Edited.
As a note on the side, is it possible to link/restrict/control the use of COLOR hubs?
e.G.: Sometimes while looking at the Golgari B/G hub, one can find Abzan 
decks, or even without / at all.
Maybe a conflict error while updating/saving changes on the deck's edit page?
Or in EDH, force a specific hub regarding the color identity of the Commander (considering you can't "splash" colors)
July 11, 2016 6:25 p.m. Edited.
Epochalyptik says... #8
Is there a way to handle "or" operators for those cases? E.g., Twin or Kiki?
July 11, 2016 6:26 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #9
Sometimes people use 2 color hubs for decks that technically run 3 colors, but the third is a splash. I'm guilty of that.
July 11, 2016 6:53 p.m.
A way to solve this could maybe be a request system, in which your can request a certain hub, and if your deck fits certain requirments, then you get accepted into that hub. However, that's a lot of work for someone to manage on their own (managing who gets accepted or not), and each person's percepton on certain hubs may vary, so it definitely has flaws, but I just figured I'd throw it out there!
July 11, 2016 7:10 p.m.
i don't think it's terrible to have 3 color decks use the 2 color hubs (id prefer they didn't, but i know sometimes its for splashes and the like as ducktape mentioned, which is alright in my opinion). i would also like to point out sometimes cards like Breaking can lead to you having colors in your deck that you dont actually have. but i do think its a good idea to prevent the use of color hubs that you don't have. as in not being able to use mardu hubs for boros decks.
things like control are a bit more subjective and i dont think thats something we can really specify enough to stop from mishandleing. things like Hivemind hubs should probably be based on the cards in them. things like Twin probably could be based on if one of several cards is in the deck. im sure someone will always find a new way to warp card specific archetypes, so perhaps if there was a way to suggest additions?
thats all i got.
July 11, 2016 8:49 p.m.
That's a good point about listing colours (there are multiple people who have mentioned it). In the past I have seen mane decks that have listed all of the sub colour combinations, e.g. a sultai deck being listed under Sultai, Simic, Golgari and Dimir. While I can definitely see the merit of listing a two-colour splash thrid deck as a two colour, for fully fledged three colour decks this is just pointless.
The other one I see a bit of (from a commander perspective) is people listing decks as combo or a deck description having a list of "combos" that're along the lines of "[insert commander here] + Lightning Greaves" or even effect that can one-shot a player (say Scion + Moltensteel Dragon + Skittles) but isn't actually combo. It's just some deck synergy. Granted though , I can understand that the definition of "combo' is a bit more loose for some people.
Maybe it might be good to have a blurb for each of the hubs describing what it is to help people choose the more relevant hubs for their deck. I also like Atony1400's idea of having a request system, similar to the "fix card" system.
July 11, 2016 11:04 p.m. Edited.
While it's a solid idea Atony1400, you have to stop to consider how many decks are made and posted on this site in a day.
That's a lot of request to approve and a lot more work for the people in charge. Not to trying to be rude when I say it seems like a fairly inefficient plan.
Epoch's idea on card checking seems somewhat effective, but then you have to consider the different cards has to consider "Twin."
My Living End/Kiki deck has a Twin tag because of Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. You have to ensure deck with card ability themes have all the relevant cards considered, which is again, a lot of extra work.
I feel it would just be easier to make a report system so that people who recognize bad tags on a deck can report it to a site administrator. Then have a system to approve the request to remove the unnecessary tags and then send an automated message to that player explaining the issue and requesting they do not repeat that mistake.
If the tag report ability is abused by children, simply remove that privilege from that user.
That seems to be the method that would create the least work. It wouldn't fix all the site's bad tags, but it would remove the ones people care about.
July 13, 2016 4:20 p.m. Edited.
Epochalyptik says... #14
It's less completely accurate, but the most efficient way to handle tags is to address mistagged decks, not to manage all decks from the outset. This is especially true when you consider that decks may change and no longer suit their original tags. I don't think anyone here wants to propose that every deck change needs to be reviewed against the deck's tags.
The other thing, too, is that this is ultimately just an honor system. Unless we hard code relationships between tags and deck characteristics (at which point the tag selection process might as well be automated), we're relying on people to be understanding and cooperative. And hard coding those relationships isn't a real possibility because of the complexity of some of the tags. For example, it's unfeasible to programmatically determine whether a deck is a control deck or a combo deck.
The_Raven says... #2
Now, I looked at the decks you had, and there was a casual deck marked with Vintage (Flash is restricted) and a homebrewed modern deck marked "competitive". This is to me clearly a misuse of the hubs.
However, this does not bother me. It is sometimes difficult to give the right hub, and often a hub is not firmly defined. Furthermore, there are thousands upon thousands of decks on TO, and it's impossible to give all those decks a correct hub. All we can do is just hope that people use them correctly.
July 11, 2016 5:11 p.m.