|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Dragon's Maze (DGM)||Rare|
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Target player puts the top eight cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
Fuse (You may cast one or both halves of this card from your hand.)
1 month ago
Rabid_Wombat - Modern Mill is a burn deck, you're just burning their library, rather than their life total. Let's look at how a typical mill game plays out, and you will see how, despite not attacking life, it is an aggro playstyle, rather than control:
Turn 1: Land + Hedron Crab Turn 2: Land + Glimpse the Unthinkable + Hedron Crab trigger for 13 mill for turn. Turn 3: Land + Fraying Sanity + Hedron Crab trigger + Fraying Sanity trigger for 6 mill for turn; 19 total. Turn 4: Land + Breaking + Mind Sculpt + Hedron Crab trigger + Fraying Sanity trigger for 36 mill for turn, 55 mill total, and a victory on next draw once you factor in an opening hand.
To pull off this turn 4 win consistently, your deck is going to be running 4x Hedron crabs, 4x Fraying Sanity ; 20x "burn" spells ( Glimpse the Unthinkable , Mind Funeral , Breaking / Entering ; Mind Sculpt and Archive Trap ), 8x draw spells ( Thought Scour and Visions of Beyond ). That leaves you 20 coloured lands and 4x Field of Ruin (to force Archive Trap ), making a round 60.
Persistent Petitioners is worse than every single card on that list. There is no room for four copies, let alone more. As such, it will make no difference in mill's Modern viability.
But wait, you say, what about mill as a control deck?
Control's goal is to attack valuable resources, leaving you in a better position for victory. The library, which mill attacks, is not a valuable resource--until actualized, those are just hidden cards with no intrinsic value. There is little synergy between these two strategies, leaving mill-control a vastly inferior option to mill-burn. 60 "life" is a lot more than 20, making it far more likely that you run out of control resources before your opponent runs out of cards.
Even in such a deck, you would still not want Persistent Petitioners , as it would detract from your absolutely necessary control cards and high-value mill cards.
With regards to Ensnaring Bridge , Darkshadow327 accurately surmised my point. The only benefit Petitioners provide to mill is a mid-sized blocker. Ensnaring Bridge is far better against aggressive creature-based decks, making it superior to Petitioners for defence.
Just like in a burn deck, you do not want to mainboard Ensnaring Bridge --it's only really useful against hyper aggressive decks that risk overwhelming you before you can finish milling. Against slower decks, those three mana would be better spent going for a faster kill.
The reason mill doesn't shine in Modern is because, as much as it pains me to say this, it is a bad archetype. It's burn, but you're attacking a 60-life resource, rather than a 20-life one. Further, your "burn" spells can only attack an opponent, whereas Lightning Bolt can take out an enemy in a pinch. With regards to your point about mitigation of burn vs. mitigation of mill, many decks do not run lifegain, and a good burn deck
Darkshadow327 - one correction to your post, you can mill for 12 the turn you've fielded four copies of Petitioners. As there is no symbol in the mill-12 ability, summoning sickness does not apply.
1 month ago
Thank you for your thoughts Darth_Savage.
I always thought of Breaking and Mind Funeral as nearly simular in strenght against the average deck - which has roughtly 21-22 lands in it - and they often fetch not more than 3 times. But at the moment im calculating against which archetypes im favored/unfavored and it seems like the unfavored ones are these with lower a land count. So I probably will follow your advice.
Inquisition of Kozilek seems to be a good idea, Thoughtseize on the other hand I don't like that much, because I often can't afford the lifelost. The version with Inquisition of Kozilek will be tested tomorrow in a lokal tournament.
2 months ago
Dream Salvage out, your deck doesn't revolve around discard. Jace, Memory Adept out. He's too slow. 3x Mindcrank in. Mindcrank + Duskmantle Guildmage's first ability are an infinite combo. See Open Skull Lobotomy for how this works. Also, your Mindcrank will turn damage dealt into mill, which is something you're going for here.
3 months ago
chessmaster102 Hey! Sorry to take so long to reply, had a lot to hand IRL these past few months. I hope you are finding the Path and Trap combo useful! Now for your suggestions. With regard to Mind Funeral I do agree that it tends to compare poorly against Glimpse the Unthinkable. I personally average about 12 cards with it, sometimes only 8 but other times a staggering 18. With many players running low land decks and thinning with fetches I find it's mid to late game impact thrilling. While I do see the appeal of Breaking, I prefer the higher potential payoff from Mind Funeral so I take the risk over consistency here. Moving on, you will notice by my edits that I also was unhappy with Memoricide. I had considered Sadistic Sacrament on your suggestion but was also not fully convinced. Once the GRN spoilers hit however I opted for the Unmoored Egos. And finally the universal suggestion for this deck. Hedron Crab is absolutely a good card in this deck. I expect that if it doesn't get removed you can net a solid 12 cards per game from it, if not more. I personally don't like the loss of flavor by including him however. Additionally I find any spell-based deck, but especially creature-less decks, are very immersive; and personally that immersion drives me to play my best. So rather than play Hedron Crab and/or Jace's Phantasms, I stack the deck with cantrips for some thinning. I really appreciate the feedback though and am glad to see someone else out there how enjoys some good Esper Mill!
5 months ago
Beck and Breaking are just placeholders. The split cards Discovery // Dispersal and Find // Finality aren't showing up properly, so I basically use those as proxies for them when I playtest. Don't worry, I'm not really using them :)
As for Lazav, the Multifarious, I ended up using Thought Erasure instead of him. I almost never used his activated ability when playtesting against multiple types of decks, and 1/3 isn't really exciting versus seeing the opponents hand and forcing them to discard. Anyways, that's just been my experience. Maybe there's something I'm not considering with him. What do you think? And if I were to put him back, what would you recommend removing?
"Sinister Sabotage... It's a great card, but why would I want it non-control matchups?" That's how I evaluated the card, hence why I put it in the sideboard. I want to be casting at least one creature or sorcery during each turn, so I'd almost never have the mana for it. The exception would be versus a control deck where I would need to keep mana open to stop something like Settle the Wreckage. All in all, I just feel like this card would be great mainboard if I were going for a control deck, but since I'm not, it's better for me in the sideboard. What are your thoughts?
5 months ago
First off, you're playing standard-illegal cards. (Beck and Breaking) secondly, i think you need to start surveilling earlier, like on turn two with someting that offers immediate value. (I know u have Thought Erasure) but it would be useful to add Lazav, the Multifarious. Also Sinister Sabotage should be mainboard. The sideboard is for situational cards that are good in certain matchups, not just sub-optimal mainboard cards.
6 months ago
- Turn 1, they've drawn 7 and have 53 cards remaining.
- Turn 2, your Hedron Crab mills for 3-6 due to the land, you mill for 8-10 with Breaking/Glimpse, and they draw for turn. Let's assume worst-case, they have 41 cards remaining.
- Turn 3, land for turn for 3, cast Fraying Sanity, mill another 3, draw for turn - 36 cards remaining.
- Turn 4, even one copy of Breaking gets them down to 15 cards. By turn 5, when you can first cast Tramautize, it mills for 7--not particularly exciting for 5 mana.
Breaking occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0,01%
U/B (Dimir): 0,53%