Uncharted Realms, The Reforged Chain
Lore forum
Posted on Jan. 21, 2015, 11:52 a.m. by JWiley129
Well, now we know what Crucible of the Spirit Dragon actually is!
Hjaltrohir says... #3
wow, that is really interesting, who knew such a crappy card would have such flavor.
January 21, 2015 12:18 p.m.
reverendvile777 says... #5
Yeah Forgotten Realms has been knocking it out of the park with Fate. I'm hooked.
January 21, 2015 12:21 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #6
TELL ME MORE, DAMMIT!! I hate these cliffhangers....just tell me where Sarkhan went, tell me what is up with Ugin (i know he is healing, but will he survive? what will happen after he is released from the crucible? etc) , and give me a damn Nicol Bolas card for standard!
January 21, 2015 12:29 p.m.
reverendvile777 - Oh, people noticed the hedrons, but they assumed something completely different. I swear if I hear another "ELDRAZI ARE COMING!" comment I swear to god...
January 21, 2015 12:31 p.m.
Dragons will be colorless (like Ugin) in next set? More artifacts as well?
January 21, 2015 12:43 p.m.
Come on MaRo, give me a planeswalker with Sarkhan as a dragon!
January 21, 2015 12:58 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #11
katarhero: ummm...Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker is him as a dragon....
January 21, 2015 1:08 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #12
JWiley129 THE ELDRAZI ARE COMING!!
/runs to read article
January 21, 2015 1:15 p.m.
/grabs a pitchfork
COME BACK HERE, GoldGhost012!
But seriously, read the story. It's freaking sweet! And sad...but also sweet!!
January 21, 2015 1:18 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #14
Yeah, it's pretty awesome! The question is, does Sarkhan exist now as he did previously?
January 21, 2015 1:25 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #15
Exactly why I am frustrated GoldGhost012! So many questions, So few answers!!
January 21, 2015 1:26 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #16
The best thing is that Bolas didn't even notice Sarkhan in the past, meaning there was no way of him knowing he had encountered him before they met on Alara.
I wonder how Bolas will react once he hears Ugin has been revived... And I want to know what their grudge was in the first place, haha.
January 21, 2015 1:29 p.m.
Havok.Bane says... #17
So Yasova Dragonclaw's ability is super flavorful. Takin all the dragons!
January 21, 2015 1:38 p.m.
So... If Sarkhan never existed...
Then Bolas never sent him to the Eye of Ugin...
Eldrazi never escaped...
This just in!!! RETURN TO ZENDIKAR.... WILL NOT HAPPEN!!!
We can stop all the "Return to Zendikar! PLZ!!" nonsense.
January 21, 2015 2:59 p.m.
Rayenous - It's been said that this isn't a hard reset like Time Spiral block was. The only plane that was drastically changed was Tarkir. Granted, other planeswalkers who visited might have had different experiences, but the Eldrazi escaping is still likely to have happened.
Also, Zendikar was too popular not to have a return to.
January 21, 2015 3:35 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #21
"as long as you seek dragons around you, you will never become the dragon within you"
Truth!
January 21, 2015 3:39 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #22
Anyone think this artwork will show up on a card in DTK?
January 21, 2015 3:42 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 - My guess is no. Remember that there was the UR exclusive artwork for Heliod killing Elspeth? My bet is that this art is the same, only meant to show up in the UR to give a sense of scope.
January 21, 2015 3:46 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #24
I want that Heliod artwork to show up somewhere though... Maybe like on Condemn or Vindicate.
But yeah, that Sarkhan and Ugin artwork is super legit.
January 21, 2015 3:59 p.m.
SimicPower says... #25
Maybe we will get a promo, I don't know, Healing Salve, with that art?
I said Healing Salve as a joke, but now that I think about it, it is a modal spell...
Anyway, I bet that Sarkhan will still exist in the new DTK present, but with an entirely different personality and such. My bigger concern with the new timeline is that if Ugin is still alive, he would probably come with Sorin to help fight the Eldrazi. Maybe time for a return to Zendikar where we get to see Sorin, Ugin, and maybe Nahiri all working together?
January 21, 2015 4:03 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #26
Except Nahiri is still missing, otherwise she would have showed up to stop Jace, Chandra, and Sarkhan from all meeting in the Eye of Ugin.
January 21, 2015 4:05 p.m.
SimicPower says... #27
GoldGhost012: Something in the new timeline could change that. Maybe? Probably not. It would still be pretty cool to see.
January 21, 2015 4:06 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #28
This new timeline shouldn't affect any world outside Tarkir though. (Thank goodness, we didn't need another Time Spiral)
January 21, 2015 4:11 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #29
Sarkhan could become the "Sky Khan" that Yasova had seen in her vision. He is half dragon half man in a sense and could be the balance Takir needs.
I just hope he's not gone for good.
January 21, 2015 4:18 p.m.
So here's my main issue with time travel. IT FUCKS EVERYTHING UP!!!!!
Okay so here's what i see. Comparing past events to what has occurred in this story i can see good and bad
Bad news first
1) If you recall, Sarkhan first "walked" from tarkir during his search for a dragon master. Now that Ugin didn't technically die, Sarkhan wouldn't have needed to do that thus creating paradox number one.
2) being whisked away by a time paradox is no joke. Basically history has been re-written. what led sarkhan to go out to try to save ugin now never happened. That has HUGE ramifications. Whether wizards actually uses that snowball effect or not is up to them. I'm with GoldGhost012 on this one. I really hope they just leave it be. we do NOT need another Time Spiral block. If they really pushed it could get messy (like time spiral). (SIDE NOTE - Paradox number 2 (bear with me here) - By going back in time to "save" Ugin and succeeding Ugin never died. Thus removing the need to Ugin to be saved so Sarkhan would never have gone back to save him Thus creating a loop of impossibility.)
3) IF. and i mean IF Wizards does do some sort of ripple effect it can really screw up the multiverse as we know it. Another reason i think wizards will leave it be.
OKAY. enough negative. time for the positives
1) Ugin being alive (sort of?) again opens a whole knew line of possibilities for the plane of Tarkir. Dragons not being wiped out for one is pretty awesome. lol
2) This could just mean that instead of going crazy, Sarkhan is able to keep is sanity but still becomes a walker who worships dragons, rather than a walker looking for a dragon master
3) This opens up things for future plot lines as well.
January 21, 2015 11:09 p.m.
Bellock86 - Doug Beyer said on his blog that basically the only plane that sees big changes is Tarkir. All the other planes are mostly untouched, with the exception of planeswalkers who had visited Tarkir in the 1280 years from Sarkhan saving Ugin to the present. I'm willing to be that Sarkhan will stay alive, as we need a character with which to see the new Tarkir through. Also, a major trope in time travel stories is the character who made the change comes back and sees what they did and how it changed things. Also you could go by the Doctor Who time travel theory that there are events that must always happen, otherwise why would there necessarily be new versions of the khans?
In any case, this isn't a hard reset like Time Spiral was, and I doubt the paradoxes will be of much concern to the average fan.
January 21, 2015 11:13 p.m.
SimicPower says... #32
I was just rereading this article on time travel in magic, when I came across this line:
"It is not possible to stay in the past, because the time stream presses on the traveler like a current of a strong river. Because the costs of energy needed to stay there are enormous and travelers have finite supplies, the time stream will eventually return them to their natural period of departure."
I don't know if this applies to Sarkhan, but being whisked away might just be the time stream bringing him back to the present.
January 22, 2015 1:03 a.m.
SimicPower ~ that's exactly what happened. The question is now, "what happened to the time stream?" As a result of Ugin not dying.
January 22, 2015 5:24 a.m.
I'm not claiming a "hard reset"... I'm just going by what was in the story.
"Then all at once-
- as Sarkhan's presence became an impossibility -
- as his travel to the past of his own world had become an affront to the laws and flow of history -
- as his actions had irrevocably changed the conditions that had led to the nexus of a dead dragon Planeswalker in this chasm -
- as all the events that had led to his world's history, and even had led to his own existence, had become nullified -
- temporal forces whisked Sarkhan away."
Even if he does still exist, there would be Dragons on Tarkir... no reason for him to leave in search of them... no reason for him to have ended up on Zendikar.
And, if his Planeswalking still led him to Zendikar, he would have no special reverence for Bolas, and would not have went to the Eye of Ugin.
In any case, Eldrazi would not have been released by Sarkhan... they would have to make another story line for that... or the "Return to Zendikar" could simply be a "New first visit to Zendikar".
January 22, 2015 8:16 a.m.
Rayenous basically just said what I was trying to say but a lot cleaner.
Thanks for making me look like an overly technical jackass. Lol. Just kidding. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees that line of reasoning to be honest.
January 22, 2015 10 a.m.
Izzet_Planeswalker says... #36
I'm sure they'll make up something where Nicol sent one of his other pawns to release the Eldrazi, like instead he sent Tezzeret or Ramaz to the eye, or maybe another dragon worshiping planeswalker so Chandra and Jace still have to fight a dragon in the Eye.
January 22, 2015 4 p.m.
Reading the story, I have to say, that was badass! I'm hoping that this tory joins the ranks of some of the older stories we've had in magic, namely those before Innistrad (Innistrad was okay, and then all other stories have been not so great)
Now, as for the time paradox that these things create... I wasn't playing Magic at the time of Zendikar so I don't have a firm grasp of the events, but I do understand that ultimately, it was Nissa who released the Eldrazi and that Sorin, Chandra and Ramaz were also all involved. I unfortunately forget Sarkhan's part in all of this. But it sounds like the best plausibility is the original Khans timeline has been erased, and now Sarkhan is outside of that timeline (this is usually how the time travel works- although the original timeline doesn't exist, the character is no longer affected by that timeline anyways). As for the Eldrazi... well, is there a possibility of the Stoneforge Mystic somehow taking Nahiri's place?
January 22, 2015 11:21 p.m.
For everyone worried that Sarkhan is no longer going to exist, note the last line of the bit where he disappears:
"temporal forces whisked Sarkhan away."
Now you could say that this is merely fancy writing, but consulting the definition of "whisk away" gives us:
Verb1. whisk away - take away quickly and suddenly
- remove from a certain place, environment, or mental or emotional state; transport into a new location or state.
Implying that Sarkhan wasn't erased from existance, but merely transported from one reality to another.
(I wonder if it can still be called a teleportation spell if the destination is oblivi-- Shut up Venser. You're dead. Go do dead stuff.)
My guess is that once we get finished with all the Fate Reforge stories about the past Khans, we're going to see something similar to the time travel model that was in X:Men, Days of Future Past. Where:
This is kind of supported by a blog post MaRo made a few weeks ago when someone asked if going back in time to save all the dragons is really a good thing, since all of the humans on Tarkir seemed to be pretty happy not being dragon snacks. He said something along the lines of: "Oh no! You mean this could be a classic time travel story?"
Also it would just be really bad character development to give Sarkhan so much depth and then just erase him from existence, I will be very disappoint with Wizards if thats the story they end up going with.
January 25, 2015 7:04 a.m.
biggestmtgnerd says... #40
Perhaps each possible timeline is just an alternate multiverse, and whenever something could have gone differently in a certain timeline, it creates multiple parallel multiverses. Every single frame of time would be a crossroad between two or more multiverses. When Sarkhan goes back in time and changes everything, he was just changing the course of events for HIS parallel multiverse so that they would have a completely different outcome. Because his time-traveling makes this new dimension possible, it becomes created and replaces his previous world. The alternate multiverse he was in is now impossible, so it ceases to exist because it's no longer a possibility; however, Sarkhan may still be unaffected because he crossed over to a different multiverse the exact frame of time he helped Ugin. This also works considering the planar chaos Mirri, Braids, etc.
The one question I have is this: if my theory is true and the time stream split off at that specific point, wouldn't that mean that the stream that would push Sarkhan back never had existed, thus not affecting him. Maybe every single atom or group of atoms divided individually among time has a single place in the dimension of time, which cannot escape from it's special time frame, and the time travel does something like cover you in energy that can push against the time stream for a limited amount of time, thus meaning that Sarkhan will still be pushed back once the energy leaves him.
And this is what happens when you try to explain time travel!
reverendvile777 says... #2
I guess the card was so terrible, no one bothered to zoom in and notice the hedrons lol.
January 21, 2015 12:14 p.m.