our store implemented house rules?

Commander (EDH) forum

Posted on Sept. 17, 2018, 12:50 a.m. by Vman

so our store just implemented a rules where CASUAL commander cannot have any proxies anymore. now i see how some pople are fine with this but let me explain our situation here.

  1. theres a bunch of competetive 1 v 1 comnmander which is popular among the more well off older people.

  2. casual multiplayer commander here is mostly populated by the kids, broke college students and casual players like myself.

2.a the competative players here do not tend to interact or play with the casuals at all because the casuals do not have $4000 decks and cannot really compete.

  1. none of the casuals care about proxies

3a. none of the casuals proxy any expensive cards, its also more of playtest proxying to save money before purchase or proxy while saving up.

  1. the shop does not have the supply of cards we need. i myself am using a foil Wurmcoil Engine to proxy a common Carrion Feeder just because i cannot find any.

thoughts on proxy ban for casual multiplayer edh when none of the players want it?

enpc says... #2

How is your store implementing this rule? Do they manage the casual games of commander?

September 17, 2018 12:57 a.m.

shadow63 says... #3

Just keep playing with proxies. What are they gonna do?

September 17, 2018 1:40 a.m.

Vman says... #4

shadow63 apperantly kick us out of the store

September 17, 2018 1:50 a.m.

Vman says... #5

also I would like to state, the exact wordings by the shop as to why this was implemented "so the younger players will learn how to budget deckbuild"

^read my points above again with that inmind =)

September 17, 2018 1:51 a.m.

Matt_The_OGRE says... #6

Having a rule like that for tournaments is fine. But if it's just for casual play then all that is gonna happen is drive potential business away. As long as players say they have proxies in the deck, the casual group should decide if they are appropriate.

September 17, 2018 2:16 a.m.

shadow63 says... #7

I would get as big of group as possible and everyone just plays with a ton of proxies maybe even get some of the more serious edh players in there to join in. They cant kick you all out. Or just stop spending money there and just soak up the ac/heat and lights. Tcg player will have what singles your looking for. Or you could just stop going there

September 17, 2018 2:22 a.m.

Boza says... #8

Tell the store that proxies are not against WOTC policies, provided it is not in a sanctioned tournament.

The translated quote from your store should be: "We need to sell more singles." However, given how WOTC has squeezed any profit from LGSs in the past few months, it is not a surprising thing.

September 17, 2018 2:45 a.m.

smackjack says... #9

Sounds like a really stupid way to run a business. If they kick you out for using proxies (of cards they cant provide you with), just take your business elsewhere.

September 17, 2018 4:55 a.m.

Vman says... #10

smackjack i believe they are takign advantage of the fact that the only other enarby shop opens only on fridays

September 17, 2018 5:30 a.m.

Boza says... #11

Ok, so there are no alternative shops, but that is still stupid from that LGS to do. When those people with the proxies are buying consummables, you are making a profit from those people, plus the store probably has an entry fee to simply play.

Even with a virtual monopoly amongst the local card shops, they are shooting themselves in the foot by shrinking their playerbase for no gain.

Personally, I have no proxies in my decks. I dislike playing with proxies, but never say anything to anyone else using proxies, nor would I refuse to play with a deck that has proxies in it. The proxied cards are exactly the same in terms of function to their originals.

Learning how to budget deckbuild and playing with proxies are two completely different things. The actual reason is:

1/ They want to sell more singles.
2/ They want to sell more starter decks and encourage that.

September 17, 2018 5:59 a.m.

smackjack says... #12

Well if they are the only place you can play magic on fridays, then do something else for a couple of fridays. Tell them that you are not comming back if you cant play with proxies, and get as many as possible to join you. They will change their mind when they see that only half of the players show up.

I really dont understand how they think this descision would benefit business. They should do anything to get kids to hang out at their store, not chasing them away :)

September 17, 2018 6:17 a.m.

smackjack says... #13

Boza I agree with you, as long as the proxying is ”realistic”. Playing against a deck with 4 proxied The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale wouldnt be realistic, as basically no non-proxy player could do that. Playing against proxied Jace, the Mind Sculptor i have no problem with :)

September 17, 2018 6:22 a.m.

Vman says... #14

i believe the most expensive proxy here is less than 10$ and majority being commons that we cannot find around. being in the philippines has its disadvantages my good friends XD

September 17, 2018 6:40 a.m.

Boza says... #15

Does your LGS sell singles? If they do, show them a few of your proxies that you know they do not have on stock and ask how they think your deck should be built without that card. Do it as often as possible to annoy them into reversing the policy.

September 17, 2018 8:52 a.m.

cdkime says... #16

I'm going to disagree with a lot of the suggestions on this thread. Drastic actions--boycotts, mass proxy use in protest, etc.--are nuclear options and should not be your first response.

Instead, talk with your LGS owner regarding the policy, raising the points you've outlined here. Remember, it's possible you and those you've talked with don't have the whole picture. Perhaps there have been complaints about proxied cards being beyond an "acceptable" power level, or the use of risque cards bought on the internet, or players getting confused about whether something is an island or a proxy, or any number of other issues. Unless you talk with the LGS, both parties will be operating with faulty knowledge--you won't know the full reason behind the policy, and they won't have heard anything but complaints about proxy use.

Prior to speaking with your LGS, I'd discuss with others and consider creating a list of settlement points--rules the players might be agreeable to in casual games. Based on what you've said, perhaps rules like you can't proxy a card more than ten dollars, or you can't have more than X proxied cards in a deck.

I think that's a much more productive method of getting what you want--or at least some of what you want. Even if the more aggressive methods might be successful, you and others who are involved will be harming your relationship with both the LGS and with players who see this as a non-issue.

September 17, 2018 9:37 a.m.

smackjack says... #17

When suggesting boycot i was taking for granted that he has talked with the store, ofcourse :). You are right, talking should always be the first solution.

September 17, 2018 10:36 a.m.

MWorl91 says... #18

Another alternative would be to talk with your friends that you play those casual games with and just go somewhere else to play, such as someone’s house.

September 17, 2018 5:48 p.m.

This thread was moved to a more appropriate forum (auto-generated comment)

September 18, 2018 12:33 p.m.

Gleeock says... #20

Wow bummer dude! I'd just post a picture of my kitchen table with the caption: "better" and tape it to their window.

September 18, 2018 1:26 p.m.

DragonKing90 says... #21

i have mixed feelings about this. on one hand, i'm usually very against proxies. i'll only allow my opponents to use them if its only 1 maybe 2 cards at most in the deck, and also if i know the person well enough to know that they have not only the intention, but the financial means to buy the actual card in the near future. on the other hand, i feel the store owner shouldn't be telling you how to play any game you didn't pay them an entry fee for. if its not a sanctioned or store event, its not up to them how you play. if there are players who don't like the proxies, they can simply choose to not play. i definitely think there's more to this story though, because it just doesn't make sense for a store owner who would otherwise allow players to use their empty tables for casual games, to suddenly literally drive away business over something trivial.

September 18, 2018 8:05 p.m.

Rhadamanthus says... #22

When you say "Casual Commander" exactly what do you mean?

If they're just pick-up games between people hanging out at the shop or non-sanctioned "tournaments" organized for casual players and not submitted to the DCI through the Wizards Event Reporter software, then I see your point, but the shop owner isn't being totally unreasonable here. They need to make a living selling cards and would rather people buy cards. Talk with the people at the shop so you can all get a better idea of what each others' concerns are and maybe work out a better situation.

If these are sanctioned Casual events (reported to the DCI with everyone only getting 1 participation point for entering and none for wins) then the shop owner has to do it this way. No proxies are allowed in any kind of sanctioned DCI event, even one classified as Casual. The shop owner doesn't have a choice in this situation.

September 24, 2018 12:48 p.m.

Vman says... #23

Rhadamanthus sure im more than happy to clear it out. by casual i mean just a bunch of people who come along to get together to play commander. no DCI, no record of wins, people just out to have fun.

also we came to a solution for now. we just dont tell the shop owner we have any proxies, all the people involved(about 25 of us) have agreed on this to just play as it is. and encourage any younger kids still saving, having problems finding cards or testing weird stuff out to just proxy discreetly.

September 24, 2018 8:52 p.m.

Vman says... #24

thank you to all the people concerned enough to share an idea here. i appreciate it alot.

September 24, 2018 8:56 p.m.

DragonKing90 says... #25

im curious about your solution. your solution is to simply keep doing what you've been doing, but without telling the shop owner. but...isn't that you were doing before? why would someone just randomly tell the shop owner "hey we're gonna use proxies over here" ? so its likely the shop owner found out about proxy usage by watching the games. and if hes watching the games, it wont matter if you don't tell him, because he'll know anyway.

October 1, 2018 10:25 p.m.

Vman says... #26

DragonKing90 sure let me elaborate a little =) before we were open about proxies, because every now and then we would ask the store owner if they have found some of the cards we are actively looking for, if that is not the case we would just proxy up in the meantime whichthe store owner took note of. now we just say we do not play any proxies in our non sanctioned events and do not speak of it.

a well printed card inside sleeves passes legit unless u take a good look =) hope that clarifies it

October 1, 2018 10:39 p.m.

DragonKing90 says... #27

if the store owner took note of it, im guessin your proxies were just slips of paper with card names written on them then? or something else easily noticeable?

October 1, 2018 10:44 p.m.

Vman says... #28

originally they were also prints, but the fact that we constantly talked about the stuff we were looking for outloud.

ex. "hey dude is that a carrion feeder? is it for sale? im still proxying mine"

now we still look for things we need but we just dont mentionthat we are proxying in the meantime to have some fun u know? and as i said, the only proxies are cheap cards that have been hard to find

October 1, 2018 10:50 p.m.

DragonKing90 says... #29

ah gotcha. gonna go through printer ink real quick like that lol.

October 1, 2018 11:09 p.m.

Vman says... #30

well usually u can get 6 colored quality proxies printed at a cafe for like 25 US cents so its not really bad at all XD ahaha

October 1, 2018 11:38 p.m.

cdkime says... #31

I'm curious, did you ever speak with your LGS' owner to discuss the issue? I would be interested in their side of the story.

October 2, 2018 12:01 a.m.

Vman says... #32

cdkime exact words from the LGS "so the younger players will learn how to budget deckbuild"

we tried talking it out.it was not very progressive. but there is a temporary solution as of now as is said

October 2, 2018 12:35 a.m.

DragonKing90 says... #33

learning how to build a deck on a budget is important, but thats not the shop owners decision to make, and i think that fact should have been pointed out to him. his reasoning sounds like a cop-out that could be translated as "i want peoples decks to be unplayable so they're forced to buy cards from me".

October 2, 2018 7:12 p.m.

Vman says... #34

Yes DragonKing90 that is exactly how we felt too.

October 2, 2018 8:21 p.m.

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