WOW tell me this ain't true
Asked by flagg777 9 years ago
So There I am, I made the perfect deck. Kicked butt against 4 players and suddenly;
Sorin Markov hits the field
I was gonna zap him but did not have the card :(after 3 rounds he got 3 tokens on it. With 3 tokens and using his "4" on the card the player did the biggest hit "take control of user"
So he grabbed my hand of cards, untapped all my lands. played a land, played all my instants, attacked with all my creatures and defined blocks to kill them, then after all that sac'ed all my lands and handed me what was left of my hand, a lowly island.
I called the judge over and was told it was all legal. Seems he could have just stated "I resign" when he took control of me. MAN I feel violated!
Is it me or did magic just turn into pokemon!
Can I get a second opinion here. renew my faith in MTG and tell me this ain't so
nobu_the_bard says... #2
Maybe a description of how planeswalkers can be fought might help?
Planeswalkers use loyalty counters; Sorin starts with four. The number on the corner indicates his starting number; the player shouldn't just assume the number of counters on him is added to that corner number (as he could have fewer than 4; the number is just what he starts at). He should have the correct number on him at all times while on the battlefield. He goes to the graveyard if he is reduced to zero counters. Tokens are a separate thing. His first ability adds 2 counters, so assuming he took no damage, he was probably at 8 counters. His third ability costs 7.
Note that you can attack planeswalkers to remove counters from them. It is similar to attacking a player; the controller of the planeswalker can use their creatures to block the attack just as if you attacked the player. You specify which of your attackers are attacking which planeswalker or player.
You can also redirect damage effects to planeswalkers from spells and abilities if the damage can target their controller. For example: Lightning Bolt, Sorin Markov, and Prodigal Sorcerer can all target a player with damage; on the ability/spell resolving you can redirect the damage to remove loyalty counters from a planeswalker the player controls.
As the previous answer said; when controlling another player, you can only have the controlled player make choices they normally could make. These can all be dumb choices, but you can't make them do things that aren't actually possible (like discarding their hand or sacrificing their lands) unless they have some method of carrying out those actions (like One with Nothing in their hand or Zuran Orb on the field).
April 4, 2016 2:08 p.m. Edited.
Thanks Nobu
I am old school, these plans walkers are a new thing to me.
I did have mobs and direct damage however I thought I could not target the plains walker unless the card said "works on plains walker".
So, from your awesome answer, I gather: On my turn during my attack phase; I can attack with a creature and declare that the creature is attacking the plains walker. The creature could be any x/x no specials. then the "loyalty" of 4 = the toughness and I can take the plains walker down BUT what is the plains walker's power? what damage does he give me X/X?
reading between the lines I assume the plains walker is like a player and does not attack back, they can block with another creature OR just take it.
Prodigal sorc CAN ping for 1 to the plains walker even though the card does not say "can ping a plains walker" i can fireball that Plains walker with a card that does not say "you can hit a plains walker with this".
Are all my assumptions correct?
and yes, old school you could sac with no reason, now you can not sac unless you got a card that sez you can sac (mana burn seems to be gone as well); I understand this (The judge I called on was not questioned on that, he was questioned on the "take control of player SCREW-ME-In-THE-BUTT" ability).
I was violated like the little kid that got in the van!
< will not happen again!Thanks for the pro-answer
April 4, 2016 2:55 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
For the purposes of combat, a planeswalker is more like a player than a creature (planeswalkers and players are different things, though). A creature can attack a planeswalker. The planeswalker doesn't deal damage back; any damage dealt to a planeswalker results in that many of that planeswalker's loyalty counters being removed.
When a planeswalker enters the battlefield, it enters with a number of loyalty counters already on it (this is the number in the bottom right of the card). After that, the counters, not the printed number, are what matters. You add or remove loyalty counters as a cost to activate loyalty abilities. When a planeswalker reaches 0 loyalty counters, it is put into its owner's graveyard as a state-based action.
Also, you may not target planeswalkers directly with spells or abilities (unless they specify "target planeswalker"). However, there's a "planeswalker redirection rule" you can apply. This rule states that whenever you would deal noncombat damage (i.e., any damage from spells or abilities) to an opponent, you may choose to redirect that damage to a planeswalker that player controls instead. You can't apply this rule to your own planeswalkers, and you only declare the redirection when the damage would be dealt.
April 4, 2016 3:13 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #5
Worth noting that when redirecting non-combat damage to a Walker, it's all or nothing.
Example: Shock can deal 2 damage to a player. You can have that 2 damage either all go to the player, or all go to the Walker. You can't split it 1:1.
Also, you cannot target a player, redirect that damage to a Planeswalker, then target the same player again for more damage from the same spell.
Example: Fireball can deal damage to multiple targets. You can't target a player, choose to redirect that damage, then target that same player a second time to also deal that player damage.
April 4, 2016 7:44 p.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #6
I figured from the way you phrased things you'd been away for awhile. I had the same experience some months ago so was hoping to get across what to do about the suckers. Also why most of my linked cards are "classic" cards, was hoping you might recognize them. :)
The redirection rule also only happens on resolution. They don't know if you're going to redirect the damage when you cast Pyrotechnics or Earthquake or whatever. They have to decide if they're going to respond without knowing that. The redirection rule allowed them keep old noncombat damage spells/abilities relevant; they didn't have to print new versions of every one to name planeswalkers as a target.
Planeswalkers are typically high value "win condition" cards. They are intended to make a big splash in most cases.
There are a couple of kill spells that do name them now like Hero's Downfall, but they are not very numerous yet. Stuff like Boomerang and such still bounces them too (they're permanents).
-> Incidentally you didn't choose an answer. I think Epochalyptik most precisely answered the actual question that was asked.
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #1
Gaining control of a player means you make all decisions that player could normally make (except conceding the game).
HOWEVER, you can't randomly sacrifice permanents. You need a spell or ability that instructs or allows you to do so. If there was no spell or ability that allowed your opponent to sacrifice your lands while controlling you, then that player made an illegal move.
April 4, 2016 1:10 p.m.