Who gets control?
Asked by dirkinzs 3 years ago
I'm working on a Commander deck based around taking control of my opponent's things and I've run into a little rules question. Let's say I've enchanted an opponent's creature with Volition Reins. It reads "You control enchanted creature". Then let's say my opponent plays Bond of Passion which says "Gain control of enchanted creature until end of turn".
Am I right in the following interpretation of events?
My opponent plays Bond of Passion and gains control of the creature. Then, as a state-based action the creature is returned to me due to my Volition Reins. However, if my opponent had Ashnod's Altar out they would in fact have time to sacrifice the creature before it returned to me.
TriusMalarky says... Accepted answer #2
Actually, layers. Time is more relevant, so because Bond has been played after Reins, then the person who controlled Bond would control said permanent during that turn, but that turn only.
January 14, 2021 4:08 p.m.
Okay, That makes sense. Then how about something more permanent. Let's say I've again used Volition Reins to take a creature but an opponent then uses Beguiler of Wills to take it from me. Because the beguiler happened later, does that mean the opponent keeps the creature, or does the enchantment's passive "You control enchanted creature" return it to me?
January 14, 2021 4:20 p.m.
TriusMalarky says... #4
Beguiler is basically like another Volition Reins. Whichever one happened last is the one that is applied.
Think of it like this: layers of a cake. When you play the creature, you have a layer of cake. Then, Bill cast Reins on that creature -- Bill adds his slice. Since Bill's slice is on top, he gets it. Then Tim casts Bond on it, so he has it until end of turn, at which point Bill gets it. Then Jake Beguiles it, so he controls it.
It's just whichever one happened last, as they are all 'control' abilities.
January 14, 2021 4:44 p.m.
griffstick says... #6
Here's a better one. You cast Control Magic and steal Tuvasa the Sunlit
. Then pass turn. Your opponent plays Control Magic on Tuvasa the Sunlit to get it back. This works because of time stamp order. Even though both cards say you control it the player who put the control magic on tuvasa last will gain control of it. Since neither things can happen simultaneously the time stamp rule is applied.
That's just an example so you can understand time stamp.
If you do the same thing and your opponent uses Grab the Reins to gain control of it, you don not get it back immediately just because you have an aura on it that says you gain control of it. The opponent with gain control of it until the effect of the spell Grab the Reins wears off. Then you'll get it back. He or she can sac it before you get it back. Sacrificing creatures to the altar can be done without using the stack because it's a mana ability.
January 14, 2021 6:20 p.m.
PhotogenicParasympathetic says... #7
Small additional note: As has been mentioned, state-based actions aren't really coming into play here, this is more about time stamps.
However, when SBA's do come into play, it is not possible for a player to respond. For example, you cannot sacrifice a creature that has taken lethal damage to Ashnod's Altar.
January 17, 2021 5:15 a.m.
In the future, please remember to hit the green "Mark as Answer" button to indicate your question has been resolved. As this question has been answers with no follow-ups, I have gone ahead and marked an answer on your behalf.
Last_Laugh says... #1
Correct. The entire premise of Marchesa, the Black Rose theft decks is to steal until eot, attack with it so it gets a +1+1 counter, then sac it before eot so it comes back at eot and it's permanently yours.
January 14, 2021 3:59 p.m.