opalescence and humility entering play at the same time
Asked by Phobophile 11 years ago
I have an Opalescence and a Humility in my graveyard.
I cast Replenish
are my non-aura enchantments still creatures?
Timestamp will not play a part of what happens here.
What you need to look at is the "Layer System", found here
Opalescence effect is a Layer #4 effect: "Any effect which would add, change or remove types, subtypes or supertypes from the object youre evaluating. These should be easy to spot, but theyre often thrown in as part of a larger ability."
Humility effect is a Layer #6, and #7B: 6 is "Any effect which would add or remove abilities to an object youre evaluating.", and 7B is "All P/T effects that set either P/T or both to a specific number or value."
As such, Opalescence will be applied first, then Humility .
Non-Aura enchantments will become Creatures with P/T equal to their CMC, and then become 1/1 creatures with no abilities.
Looking into this more, I noticed that this exact scenario is an example used on the link I provided.
July 31, 2013 11:22 a.m.
Sorry... I was wrong about the timestamp not being required.... it is required to determine their P/T.... which, if I had read your response to yourself, I would have noticed you changed that part of the question.
The answer to that part is defined by "613.6g If two or more objects would receive a timestamp simultaneously, such as by entering a zone simultaneously or becoming attached simultaneously, the active player determines their timestamp order at that time."
You will get to choose the timestamp order. You will likely choose to have them have a P/T equal to their CMC.
July 31, 2013 11:28 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #4
It does not matter which enters the battlefield first as these are "global" effects and not "triggered" effects.
Humility won't care about anything until they're turned to creatures so as previously stated they will become creatures that are CMC/CMC. THEN Humility sees these as creatures and applies its effect (thus becoming 1/1's). There is no "ability" making the enchantments a creature, it is a global effect. All other global enchantments will be 1/1 creatures (apparently with no creature "type")
July 31, 2013 2:58 p.m.
Phobophile says... #5
@harrydemon117
rules text on cards are "abilities". they don't have to be triggered, "can't be blocked" "flying" and global effects that exist on permanents such as "creatures get +1/+1" etc. are all abilities, and you can lose them.
you can Turn and Burn a Blightsteel Colossus , and not only would it die, but it would lose its "ability" to be shuffled back into your library when it does.
August 1, 2013 2:18 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #6
This is true about an ability on a card, but I thought anything that gives a +x/+x "buff" due to a global effect like Glorious Anthem or Intangible Virtue apply after everything else. So if a "global" ability grants this bonus then isn't it still applied after effects that change the creature itself?
August 1, 2013 8:02 a.m.
Phobophile says... #7
power and toughness modifiers get applied after most static abilities, but they are still static abilities.
if i had a Glorious Anthem out and you Turn one of my creatures, it will be "set" to be a 0/1 in layer 7b, then given +1/+1 in layer 7c, and become a 1/2.
as an easier example, if you Ovinize a Predatory Sliver , it will have the static ability to buff itself taken away, and just be a vanilla 0/1 until end of turn. if you had other slivers on board, however, it would still receive those buffs, as Ovinize wouldn't take away the creature type.
August 2, 2013 12:54 a.m.
Phobophile says... #8
does that mean that if they both come into play during an opponent's turn, that opponent gets to decide what order they come in, even though the effects are owned by me?
August 2, 2013 12:56 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #9
No. The controller of the cards gets to put them on the stack in whatever order they choose no matter WHO the active player is.
For instance, your opponent has 2 x Fiend Hunter on board and you have a Ratchet Bomb at 3 counters. The creatures exiled are Thragtusk and Sin Collector . Once they hit, YOU get to choose which order they go on the stack as you control these permanents
August 2, 2013 8:09 a.m.
Phobophile says... #10
@harrydemon117 you're thinking about triggered abilities. i'm talking about static abilities that enter play at the same time, and that effect permanents on the same layer.
please see the original and follow up questions above.
August 5, 2013 3:52 a.m.
Phobophile says... #11
edit: it just has to be a static ability, it does not have to effect permanents
Phobophile says... #1
i may have a simpler question.i know that if opalescence has the most recent timestamp, enchantments will become creatures, lose all abilities, have their P/T set to 1/1, and THEN have their P/T set to their converted mana cost.
so perhaps a simpler question: when they enter play at the same time, do I get to choose the order of their timestamps?
July 31, 2013 7:19 a.m.