Jodah, Archmage Eternal and Jegantha, the Wellspring interaction with Generic
Asked by 9-lives 3 years ago
Can I use Jegantha, the Wellspring to give me rainbow mana, then use Jodah, Archmage Eternal to use on generic mana cost cards, like Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger?? Or does Jegantha, the Wellspring's statement that it can't be used on generic mana override Jodah, Archmage Eternal 's ability?
But can I useJegantha, the Wellspring and Jodah, Archmage Eternal to cast something like Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger??? Isn't that a generic mana cost, which means that you can't?
November 24, 2020 3:36 p.m.
dragonstryke58 says... #3
As I mentioned, Jegantha, the Wellspring doesn't care about the printed mana cost of the card. It only cares about the mana cost you are actually trying to pay.
Since Jodah, Archmage Eternal gives spells you cast (including Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger) the alternate casting cost of , you can use the mana generated by Jegantha, the Wellspring to pay for that alternate casting cost as there is no generic mana cost in that alternate casting cost.
November 24, 2020 3:42 p.m. Edited.
Rhadamanthus says... #4
Yes, this works. Applying Jodah, Archmage Eternal's ability while casting Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger changes Ulamog's mana cost to . There's no generic mana in that cost, so Jegantha, the Wellspring's mana ability can be used to pay it.
To be clear: a "generic mana cost" is a cost that includes a number (or X) in a gray circle: , , , etc. Mana from Jegantha's ability can't be used to pay these costs.
November 24, 2020 3:48 p.m.
So, just to be clear, basically while Jegantha, the Wellspring wouldn't normally pay for Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger on her own, with Jodah, Archmage Eternal he modifies the cost, thereby making a modification on the ability of the mana to pay for generic cost of Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger?
November 24, 2020 3:57 p.m.
dragonstryke58 says... #6
The part you are confusing is that the restriction on Jegantha, the Wellspring only means that the mana created by its ability can only be used to satisfy the color requirement of a mana cost. It does not mean that a card with generic mana in its mana cost cannot be cast.
November 24, 2020 4:16 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #7
9-lives: That's right. Applying Jodah's effect means Ulamog doesn't have a generic cost anymore.
November 24, 2020 4:17 p.m.
Alright. Thank y'all for answering my question and clearing things up for me. Now, I have another question. Would Stonecoil Serpent or especically Chamber Sentry benefit from the 5 mana that Jodah, Archmage Eternal gives?
November 24, 2020 4:31 p.m.
dragonstryke58 says... #9
Jodah, Archmage Eternal does not generate mana. He only provides an alternate casting cost to cast spells.
If you choose to pay the alternate casting cost provided by Jodah, Archmage Eternal for Stonecoil Serpent or Chamber Sentry, X will not be paid. They will enter the battlefield with 0 +1/+1 counters.
November 24, 2020 4:38 p.m. Edited.
dragonstryke58 says... #10
The key here is that Jodah, Archmage Eternal gives all your spells an alternate casting cost. He does not override anything. You can choose to pay the original casting cost or the alternate casting cost.
Some other examples of alternate casting costs are Overload, Evoke, Morph, etc.
In much the same way, you choose which cost you want to pay -- either the original casting cost or the alternate casting cost.
Comprehensive Rules:
- 118.9. Some spells have alternative costs. An alternative cost is a cost listed in a spell’s text, or applied to it from another effect, that its controller may pay rather than paying the spell’s mana cost. Alternative costs are usually phrased, “You may [action] rather than pay [this object’s] mana cost,” or “You may cast [this object] without paying its mana cost.” Note that some alternative costs are listed in keywords; see rule 702.
- 118.9a Only one alternative cost can be applied to any one spell as it’s being cast. The controller of the spell announces their intentions to pay that cost as described in rule 601.2b.
- 118.9b Alternative costs are generally optional. An effect that allows you to cast a spell may require a certain alternative cost to be paid.
- 118.9c An alternative cost doesn’t change a spell’s mana cost, only what its controller has to pay to cast it. Spells and abilities that ask for that spell’s mana cost still see the original value.
- 118.9d If an alternative cost is being paid to cast a spell, any additional costs, cost increases, and cost reductions that affect that spell are applied to that alternative cost. (See rule 601.2f.)
November 24, 2020 4:47 p.m.
Small correction, if you cast Chamber Sentry with Jodah, Archmage Eternal's ability, X will be 0, as dragonstryke58 stated, but it will still enter with 5 counters on it. This is because Chamber Sentry doesn't actually care about the value chosen for X, just the colors of mana spent.
This actually ends up being an important distinction for Engineered Explosives that works the same way, as players will choose a smaller value for X than needed to get around the effect of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben or a larger value of X and spend mana of the same color to avoid triggering Eidolon of the Great Revel.
November 24, 2020 8:15 p.m.
dragonstryke58 says... #12
Sorry, 9-lives
One part of the answer I gave that you selected was a bit wrong.
If you chose to use the to cast Chamber Sentry, you would get 5 +1/+1 counters. Though you did not pay , Chamber Sentry only cares about the number of colors spent to cast it.
Edit - Ninja'd
dragonstryke58 says... #1
Yes, you can use Jegantha, the Wellspring to pay the costs for spells you cast with Jodah, Archmage Eternal on the battlefield.
Jodah, Archmage Eternal has a static ability that gives spells you cast the alternate casting cost of . The activated ability of Jegantha, the Wellspring gives you mana that can be used to pay that alternate casting cost as the alternate casting cost does not contain any generic mana costs.
Jegantha, the Wellspring's activated ability only cares what mana cost you are trying to pay and not the actual printed cost on the card. You can also use the mana generated by Jegantha, the Wellspring to pay for cards like Archelos, Lagoon Mystic, but you will have to pay the since that is a generic cost and will have left unused (that still can't be used to pay generic costs).
November 24, 2020 3:30 p.m.