Hive Mind + Mizzix's Mastery
Asked by Entrei 8 years ago
So was looking through tech for an edh deck, and noticed something that I can't figure out. Hive Mind, according to the oracle text, cannot copy something generated off of say, Fork. However, Mizzix's Mastery states that you may cast the copies without paying the costs. Seeing as Hive Mind only triggers off of casting, what happens if I overload Mizzix's Mastery?
Don't forget about a nifty Radiate! I've seen someone Chaos Warp and then Radiate it. I can only imagine what would happen if everyone choose to do that with Hive Mind out.
February 14, 2017 4:28 p.m.
Eiti3 dude this is going to give enough aneurysms without that. ...Grip of Chaos will be fun tho
February 14, 2017 4:31 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #5
Except I'm pretty sure NPC1, 2 and 3 get overloaded versions too. A copied spells controller can't choose to pay additional/alternate costs, but if the owner of the original spell pays the cost it happens for everyone.
February 14, 2017 4:43 p.m.
No, overloaded spells have a text changing effect. Copying a spell copies all modes, additional costs, and paid costs...however it does not cover changes in the originals text. Read the ruling regarding overload. And besides, the damned process is complicated enough as it is
February 14, 2017 4:51 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #7
I think the part that matters is in 706.10;
" A copy of a spell or ability copies both the characteristics of the spell or ability and all decisions made for it, including modes, targets, the value of X, and additional or alternative costs."
The fact that it's a text-changing ability has no bearing on the fact that you paid the alternate cost and therefore are getting an alternate effect.
February 14, 2017 7:20 p.m. Edited.
PhotogenicParasympathetic says... #8
No, I actually looked it up before answering, because I wasn't sure either. You get a copy of the non-overloaded spell.
February 14, 2017 7:47 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #9
The Oracle text on Nivix Guildmage suggests you copy the Overload. I don't see why Hive Mind would be different.
The important part seems to be that the spell knows it's been cast overloaded, and so do the copies.
I'll cite this other Salvation conversation that goes over it with any of the necessary rules.
February 14, 2017 7:56 p.m.
PhotogenicParasympathetic says... #10
You are correct, I concede to you.
It's a confusing interaction, because Overload is a text-changing effect, which is NOT a copyable characteristic. For example, if I cast Pyroblast, then cast Alter Reality to replace the word "blue" with the word "green," then Reverberate the pyroblast, the copy will still say blue, not green.
However, Overload is ALSO an alternative cost, which IS a copyable characteristic, and is therefore seen by the Hive Mind.
I should have read to the end of the discussion I was using. My bad.
February 14, 2017 8:33 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #11
No worries. I had to read 3-4 different places (including the comprehensive rules) to make sure. There were some differing opinions out there for sure.
PhotogenicParasympathetic says... Accepted answer #1
Let's say it's a four-player game. The players will be referred to as "You" "NPC1" "NPC2" and "NPC3," and are in that turn order.
With Hive Mind on the battlefield, you cast Mizzix's Mastery paying it's overload cost. Hive Mind triggers, and each of your opponents places a copy of Mizzix's Mastery on the stack, targeting a (single) spell in that player's graveyard. Assuming no responses, NPC3's copy of Mastery resolves, exiling a card and giving NPC3 the option to cast it. If that player chooses to cast it, it goes on the stack with all appropriate targets chosen. Hive Mind triggers again, and You, NPC1, and NPC2 all get copies of NPC3's spell. NPC2's copy of NPC3's spell then resolves, followed by NPC1's copy, followed by your copy, followed by NPC3's original copy. Then NPC2's copy of Mastery resolves, and he or she may cast a copy of the exiled card. If he/she does, then Hive Mind triggers again, giving You, NPC1, and NPC3 copies of NPC2's spell. NPC1's copy resolves, then yours, then NPC3's, then NPC2's. Then NPC1's Mastery resolves, and he/she may cast a copy of their exiled card. If they do, Hive Mind triggers again, and You, NPC2, and NPC3 get copies. Yours resolves, then NPC3's, then NPC2's, then NPC1's original copy. Next, your copy of Mizzix's Mastery finally resolves, exiling each instant card and each sorcery card from your graveyard. You choose how many and in which order to cast them, and do so, selecting targets as appropriate. Hive Mind triggers for each one AFTER they have all been put on the stack. NPC3 must put a copy of the LAST spell you cast on the stack, followed by NPC2, then NPC1, then NPC3 copies your second to last spell, followed by NPC2 and NPC1, and so on until all copies have been cast. Then, each spell resolves in the reverse order it was placed on the stack, with your spells cast through Mizzix's Mastery resolving after all the copies of those spells controlled by your opponents.
February 14, 2017 3:42 p.m.