Does Spy Kit change the name of the card, or just the equipped creature as a permanent?
Asked by Yesterday 2 years ago
In practicality this is a silver-bordered question, but MaRo hasn't answered yet. I'll hopefully get a response eventually, but in the meantime I'm hoping somebody knows of a specific niche black-bordered ruling that might not exist due to irrelevancy, and I wouldn't know how to find.
If I equip a Spy Kit to a creature, does that change the card's name as well as the name of the equipped creature's?
And/or: When you discard a card for the effect of an ability that references a quality of that card (like with Kindle the Carnage), does that ability refer to that card's quality in whatever zone it's now in if it can be found, or does it refer to the card's last known information? If the latter, from which zone actually is that last known information gathered?
What I want to do is reveal Masterful Ninja from my hand to have it in my hand and on the battlefield until end of turn, equip the Masterful Ninja with Spy Kit, and then discard Masterful Ninja to Urza's Hot Tub to be able to tutor for (nearly) any creature. I'm trying to figure out if this would work.
Ah, shoot. LKI from the graveyard was what I'd feared, but makes sense.
So what you're saying is... I'd need to have Over My Dead Bodies in play, do this during the combat step, and also have something like Leonin Shikari in play to equip Masterful Ninja again in response to my own Hot Tub ability. This all only being relevant only if Spy Kit changes the card's name in addition to the permanent's name in the first place. Got it.
Oh a more sane note, how does Kindle the Carnage work with Madness cards? Where does it get the information from?
September 29, 2021 12:11 p.m.
As far as Over My Dead Bodies goes, it still wouldn't work. The act of discarding it will make it leave the battlefield, so if it was already attacking or blocking, the equipment would fall off, and OMDB will only let you interact with it via spells and abilities once it is declared as an attacker or blocker from the graveyard. There's just never a time when it is a creature on the battlefield during the resolution of Urza's Hot Tub's ability.
Now for Kindle the Carnage it depends on whether it was cast or not. When you discard a card with Madness (such as Fiery Temper), it goes to exile until you decide to cast it or not. If you cast it, it moves to the stack, and the LKI is from exile. If you chose not to, it goes to the graveyard, and there is a rule under madness that says it can be found. 702.35c After resolving a madness triggered ability, if the exiled card wasn’t cast and was moved to a public zone, effects referencing the discarded card can find that card. See rule 400.7i.. In either case, the mana value would be the same.
September 29, 2021 1:04 p.m.
Kindle the Carnage deals the damage as part of its resolution, so cards dont have a chance to change zones after being discarded before the damage us dealt. If they're discarded to exile (due to madness or Rest in Peace) they'll still be there and their mana value won't change. If they're discarded to library (due to Wheel of Sun and Moon or being Darksteel Colossus) you'll use the mana value that was revealed when they changed zones.
September 29, 2021 2:37 p.m.
Apologies, but Neotrup is correct for the Kindle the Carnage part. My head was thrown for so much of a loop from silver border questions, I didn't properly answer the black border one right.
September 29, 2021 4:30 p.m.
Neotrup, that checks out. So I could make it specifically a silver-bordered issue by having a Library of Leng or something.
Dracoson, Took a hot minute responding because that absolutely checks out based on how Over My Dead Bodies is written, but I was sure that MaRo had declared the card had a bit more functionality that didn't fit in the text box. But I can't find anything about that now. Oh well.
If anybody sees this in a Google search years down the line and knows what I'm talking about, I'll still be interested if you could comment it here.
Dracoson says... Accepted answer #1
Offhand, I'd say this doesn't work, but you'll almost certainly want to wait for an official ruling from Mark. Here's my reasoning: Urza's Hot Tub is going to see it as it exists in the graveyard where it is no longer equipped so that it only has it's own name, because as soon as you discard it, it is going to leave play, as the ability of Masterful Ninja only allows it to be in the Hand and on the Battlefield, but as soon as it moves from one of those zones to a different zone (graveyard, exile, library) it ceases to be in the other. Last known information would only be relevant if the card were to have left the graveyard before the Hot Tub's ability resolved, where it would still use the characteristics it had in the graveyard, not the hand.
September 29, 2021 11:47 a.m.