Activated Abilities on the stack
Asked by Stygiandreams 11 years ago
About a week ago, I was playing a game with a buddy of mine and he was using Crackling Perimeter
. Being the second game, I was waiting for it with Sundering Growth
. He activated the ability - and in response - I tried to destroy it. He said that it'd be destroyed but I'd still take damage as the activated ability doesn't exist on the stack - it's on it's own stack (so to speak).
My question is: Is there anyway to stop someone from activating an activated ability? Can you respond to it in any way to prevent them having the ability resolve? And to make things a little more relevant, are there any ways in Standard aside from Pithing Needle ?
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #2
Whatever that stack talk was, it wasn't correct. There's one stack, and that's where spells and abilities go when they're cast/activated/triggered.
Anyway, the key thing is that once an ability is on the stack, getting rid of the source won't change that fact. It will eventually resolve unless something specifically counters it.
January 15, 2014 5:08 p.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #4
The activated ability is still on the stack, but it does not care that the source of the ability was destroyed, Crackling Perimeter 's ability will still resolve. The destroy effect from Sundering Growth will destroy it before the ability resolves, however (this matters sometimes, though not here).
The player controlling Crackling Perimeter can also activate it in response to your casting Sundering Growth , incidentally, so long as he can pay the cost for activating it. In that case, because the stack operates on LIFO, its ability would resolve, then it would be destroyed; in this case, functionally similar, but I wanted to mention he could have activated it before you were able to successfully destroy it.
To prevent him from activating it, most often, you would need to do something like deny him the circumstances it requires or resources to activate it. For example, Stone Rain his gates, so he cannot pay the cost. Alternatively, in addition to a trick like Pithing Needle , you could counter its ability with something like Trickbind (though ability counters of this sort are fairly rare to see in most formats, I think). You could also counter its casting in the first place using Dissolve or such; its ability can't be activated if it never actually enters the battlefield.
This kind of thing used to confuse me all of the time too. Still does.
January 15, 2014 5:17 p.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #5
Rereading what I posted, I'm not sure I was clear about land destruction; I meant, deny him the tools he needs to operate it in the first place. This would be one of the most common ways of dealing with it, where feasible; in this case Crackling Perimeter specifically requires gates, so they are the target. Even if the land destruction is at instant speed, once it is on the stack, if Crackling Perimeter is already in play, it can still be activated in response if its controller has an untapped gate.
January 15, 2014 5:28 p.m.
@gufymike: You said "Then all their responses resolves, your Sundering Growth resolves and the last one on the stack, first one put on the stack, fizzles since Crackling Perimeter isn't in play anymore." That is incorrect. Abilities on the stack continue to exist and resolve even if their source has left the battlefield. Only a few cards, such as Myr Servitor , have abilities which will not resolve if their source has left the battlefield, and these specifically mention the source with an "intervening if clause." An ability will also be countered if it is targeting its source, has no other targets, and the source is no longer a legal target when the ability tries starting to resolve.
January 15, 2014 5:40 p.m.
PrimeEpoch says... #7
For clarification, if Crackling Perimeter is destroyed before its ability resolves, it wouldn't deal damage. This is because the wording says that Crackling Perimeter deals one damage, and it's unable to do so when it's not on the field.
January 15, 2014 5:41 p.m.
what nayaftw said is what I meant by fizzle, Drilnoth. Fair enough, it resolves but doesn't deal damage.
January 15, 2014 5:43 p.m.
@nayaftw: That is incorrect. Crackling Perimeter can still deal damage even if it is no longer on the battlefield, the same way a Lightning Bolt can deal damage without being on the battlefield. The damage comes from a "source" not a "permanent," and the source still exists. This is why a card like Auriok Replica uses the word "source" instead of "permanent or spell."
January 15, 2014 5:44 p.m.
Relevant rules:
112.7a Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time wont affect the ability. Note that some abilities cause a source to do something (for example, Prodigal Pyromancer deals 1 damage to target creature or player) rather than the ability doing anything directly. In these cases, any activated or triggered ability that references information about the source because the effect needs to be divided checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. In both instances, if the source is no longer in the zone its expected to be in at that time, its last known information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists.
609.7a If an effect requires a player to choose a source of damage, he or she may choose apermanent; a spell on the stack (including a permanent spell); any object referred to by an object on the stack, by a replacement or prevention effect thats waiting to apply, or by a delayed triggered ability thats waiting to trigger (even if that object is no longer in the zone it used to be in); or, for certain casual variant games, a face-up card in the command zone. A source doesnt need to be capable of dealing damage to be a legal choice. The source is chosen when the effect is created. If the player chooses a permanent, the effect will apply to the next damage dealt by that permanent, regardless of whether its combat damage or damage dealt as the result of a spell or ability. If the player chooses a permanent spell, the effect will apply to any damage dealt by that spell and any damage dealt by the permanent that spell becomes when it resolves.
January 15, 2014 5:50 p.m.
I forgot to include emphasis in my last post: if the source is no longer in the zone its expected to be in at that time, its last known information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists.
January 15, 2014 5:51 p.m.
Drilnoth I understand and found the rule, but to prevent further confusion, next time please, source the rule(s) you're stating when you're explaining. Saves the back and forth. e.g.
112.3b Activated abilities have a cost and an effect. They are written as [Cost]: [Effect.] [Activation instructions (if any).] A player may activate such an ability whenever he or she has priority. Doing so puts it on the stack, where it remains until its countered, it resolves, or it otherwise leaves the stack. See rule 602, Activating Activated Abilities.
112.7a Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time wont affect the ability.
January 15, 2014 5:54 p.m.
errg, ok you did it while I was finding a copy and pasta version for myself.sorry.
January 15, 2014 5:57 p.m.
It's okay. I should have just posted a reference to the comp. rules in the first place.
January 15, 2014 6 p.m.
PrimeEpoch says... #16
I can't be bothered to look further. If you want to solve this, have a look.
http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/resources/rules/MagicCompRules_21031101.pdf
January 15, 2014 6:01 p.m.
Stygiandreams says... #18
Gotcha. So... if someone has a Fleecemane Lion and 5 open mana to monstrosity it, and you've got a Doom Blade , then it's like a waiting-game. If you try to kill it first, then they activate monstrosity and the creature lives. If the activate it first, then you use the Doom Blade , then you'd kill the creature; however, the ability would still resolve - but not protect the creature because the ability would have no creature to effect.
gufymike says... #1
here's the deal, yes and no.
Trickbind and Stifle come to mind for 'stopping'.
Now, they can activate it once, then you get priority and you respond with Sundering Growth , then they can respond to your response by activating it more. Then all their responses resolves, your Sundering Growth resolves and the last one on the stack, first one put on the stack, fizzles since Crackling Perimeter isn't in play anymore.
The Crackling Perimeter doesn't get it's own stack or it's ability not exist on the stack. That's wrong.
There is no real proper way to get them to do what you want without bating them into filling the stack with a bunch of activation's before you play Sundering Growth . If they play smart and activate, let it resolve,till they can't or don't want to do it anymore, you can get rid of it and hope they don't respond with more activation's (if possible).
January 15, 2014 5:07 p.m.