To concede or not to concede
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Feb. 26, 2014, 7 p.m. by raithe000
One of the crucial differences between regular magic and multiplayer is that in multiplayer, player's can leave the game without the game ending. Normally, this happens because someone lost, whether from life loss, poison counters, or drawing from an empty library.
But there is another way for a player to lose: conceding. According to the mtg rules, a player can concede at any time, which I have seen interpreted as "faster than instant speed" usually. Now, in regular magic, this doesn't matter. You concede, the match is over, whatever. But in multiplayer, this can become a last-ditch effort to damage another player. A classic example would be conceding before a lifelink creature can damage you, denying your opponent life, but there are other ways to damage your killer by preventing him from gaining the benefits of killing you.
So, this brings up a question: what are the unwritten rules behind conceding? When is it appropriate, and when should you stay in, even if it's just to get killed? Do people have any house rules about conceding in multiplayer? And for competitive EDH players, is conceding considered a possible tactic, or is it frowned upon?
Schuesseled says... #3
I would argue that players should have to concede on their own turn's to avoid situations as described in the OP. The only exception to this rule is when infinite loops get out of hand and the game is over.
I'll do this and that and this and that, and take 6 extra turns, and now i draw again.
No now i concede.
February 26, 2014 7:22 p.m.
thataddkid says... #4
You can say "I concede" in my playgroup and they'll just play like you died regularly if they tried to pull something like that. Most will just give up once someone combo's off, for example casting entwined Tooth and Nail doesn't even warrant me searching up Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Zealous Conscripts , it's just gg right there. Conceding can be necessary if someone has to leave but usually it's frowned upon unless outside circumstances make it necessary.
February 26, 2014 7:33 p.m.
That happened to me today when I attacked with tons of Spawnwrithe tokens and the opponent conceded before damage. It actually really affected the board state and game overall. I wasn't mad though, it was only EDH.
February 26, 2014 7:51 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #6
I think ChiefBell has hit the nail on the head here "I wasn't mad though, it was only EDH." This should be the essence of everything EDH since it is, first and foremost, a casual format. You can MAKE it more competitive but at it's heart it's casual.
February 26, 2014 7:53 p.m.
SharuumNyan says... #7
Strategic scooping is part of the game. I don't think it's cheating or unfair. Using an exit strategy to affect the remaining players adds another level of interest to the format, especially in a points-based league where scooping could prevent another player from gaining achievement points.
February 26, 2014 7:55 p.m.
I mostly play at university, where people will routinely scoop in order to get to class on time. The only real houserule we use is that we'll respond to scooping. Mostly this happens when someone scoops on their own turn, as a replacement for playing in the end step. There's the occasional guy who scoops in response to damage, but it's usually in a joking "yeah, we all know you win anyways" way.
February 26, 2014 8:03 p.m.
miracleHat says... #9
I think that the most annoying thing that i have done with conceding is with Blood Baron of Vizkopa . Player A and I were under ten life while player b was above thirty. He attacked my opponent who couldn't block and before damage, i conceding that for the blood baron would only attack for four. The next turn, player A alpha swung by Triumph of the Hordes .
February 26, 2014 8:22 p.m.
@Droxium but if player A was under 10 life, Blood Baron would still be a 10/10, wouldn't it?
February 26, 2014 8:25 p.m.
I tend to force opponents to kill me, but there are times where conceding makes the game more interesting. I was playing 4 player Commander and my opponent cast a Diluvian Primordial after wrathing the board. There was a Rise of the Dark Realms in my graveyard, so I conceded so he would not get that card. It made the game go on for a few more turns, but that player ended up winning nonetheless.
February 26, 2014 8:40 p.m.
Unforgivn_II says... #13
That's why I play with Crovax, Ascendant Hero . He lets me quit within the rules. :D
I'm no quitter though. If I ever concede, its when I'm going to lose during upcoming combat or before a spell that will kill me resolves. In multiplayer, I'll let whatever it is happen (unless Crovax is out. Then its their fault for not playing around it). I have a friend who's policy is to quit whenever he and I get down to 1v1. It bugs the heck out of me, because he can always just topdeck a Banishing Stroke and change the game. If I'm ever playing multiplayer, its casual. I'm not one for breeding bad behavior or making others upset. I take my loss on the chin and start shuffling for next game.
February 26, 2014 8:44 p.m.
I won't scoop strategically to mess with someone else's board. I will concede when a player is in a clear checkmate position. There are also times I have scooped when one of the players starts to draw out the game, either not finishing us off when he/she could, or playing cards that massively stall the game. For me EDH is about having fun with friends, it shouldn't feel like I am having my teeth pulled.
February 27, 2014 1:14 p.m.
I play in a fairly casual EDH league, but there is a point system, and prizes at the end of the season.
As such, conceding is a concern... "I'll attack you with my 22/22 commander"...., "I concede before damage", would not go over well.
As such, if you concede when it is obvious that someone could kill you before you (or another) could prevent it they get the 3 points for killing you.
If you concede when you are currently "safe" (your turn, or end of opponents turn with no triggers that will kill you, etc), then each opponent gets 2 points. - It becomes your choice, play on so that only 3 points go to one player, or give 2 points to each player.
This also holds true for killing yourself... Lightning Bolt ing yourself for your final 3 points of life is the same as conceding.
February 27, 2014 1:28 p.m.
I conceded Friday night in a game where I had hit a four digit life total using my modified Eternal Bargain deck. My opponent had me pretty locked down, and kept on countering any attempt to get out from under his thumb. My only hope was draw Storm Herd and hope he didn't counter it, or wrath. In situations like that I'd rather concede than sit on my hands, turn after turn watching my opponent play while I can do nothing.
Epochalyptik says... #2
Sportsmanship is sometimes at odds with "proper" play; some people believe it is sportsmanlike to allow the player who would kill you to do so and gain the benefits. Others believe that if you are going to lose, you might as well not give any advantage to the player who would kill you. It's up to you. Some groups have house rules preventing players from conceding if they would lose the game within the next step or phase.
In competitive EDH, my philosophy is that anything goes. The only rules by which you play are the official ones. Depending on the attitudes of your opponents, though, they might still call you a poor sport. It's ultimately personal preference (and playgroup preference).
February 26, 2014 7:06 p.m.