doomsday combo
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on Sept. 20, 2016, 11:43 p.m. by z2aaa
im super confused with it i keep being told to run it id like to know how it works excatly i undderstand lab man but how u know when to cast it and when not to and if doing so what cards
Ohthenoises says... #3
Use doomsday to tutor for 3 cantrips, lab man, and something like Deep Analysis.
Cantrip to Lab man, then Cantrip out deck. Easy peasy
September 21, 2016 12:33 a.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #4
Generally I try to avoid Doomsday combos since it automatically takes up 5 slots in your deck and outside of the Doomsday, those cards are more often than not dead cards that don't impact the game or further you to win. What color deck are you planning to put this in?
September 21, 2016 1:38 a.m.
I have to agree with Raging_Squiggle. Doomsday combo seems to leave you open to too much disruption, it requires you run cards that aren't optimal for any other purpose, and takes far too many slots in a deck.
I don't like it. It can be run successfully, but is it worth it? Perhaps I just play selfish Magic, as in I counter anything that threatens me, and nothing else.
I have NEVER seen Doomsday win, perhaps that's because I save too many counters, maybe I don't play in top tier Competitive, I don't know. Imo, it's too many slots, far too open to disruption, not a win condition with enough protection.
Even when I'm playing slow with Zur, I have enough counters to disrupt it by myself, let alone additional players.
September 21, 2016 2:58 a.m.
Coinman1863 says... #6
Hello, resident liaison to the cEDH subreddit here.
Doomsday, or DD as it is affectionately called is one of the most efficient, consistent, and fast decks in the format. The paragon of the doomsday decks is Skuloth's Ad Nauseam Doomsday Zur. The thing is, you only are devoting 2 lots to Doomsday, the card itself, and Lab Man. This is because the deck has two ways to win, Storm and DD. All of the cards used to go off with DD can be used for storm as well. What makes the deck so consistent are 3 cards:
Doomsday because no matter if you have used the cards before, you can put it into the DD pile form the GY.
Necropotence because it will draw enough of you deck to have you see enough cards to win while protected and Zur fetches it from the command zone.
Ad Nauseam because instant speed draw your whole deck just wins games. This is because you do it on the prior turn's End Step so you get to keep your full grip of cards.
A standard DD pile is: Gush, Lion's Eye Diamond, Gitaxian Probe, Yawgmoth's Will, and Laboratory Maniac.
Hope this helps, and if you have any questions just ask!
September 21, 2016 10:37 a.m.
Shane.Allen says... #7
I have to agree 100% with Coinman1863 and 100% against iAzire. Either iAzire has never actually seen or played in top tier competitive Magic or he just has no clue what the deck is about. The Doomsday combo as featured in my tier 1 deck which is based off of Skuloth's deck is a turn 3 guaranteed win every time. Resilient, effective and if you know what you are doing. I would suggest thatiAzire learn what tier I magic is before they trash something they do not know, Lets see you counter my turn 3 win. I would also love to know what type of meta your playing in and what joke decks your playing.
September 21, 2016 2:02 p.m.
Turn 3 guaranteed seems like a stretch to me.
Especially since Ive been playing and tuning this deck for a long time.
The deck can goldfish wins between turns 2 and 4, with 4 being the most consistent and basically guaranteed.
Like the Coinman said, doomsday only takes 2 ( or 3 depending on your opinions of Gush) slots. Any other card being played in combination with Doomsday is a card you would be running in a high power combo deck already. Which makes it one of the most slot efficient combo kill conditions in the format. Labman and DD are the only two 'dead' slots in the deck.
The deck is very fast, and very resilient to stack based disruption. It runs just as much counter magic as the average control deck, averaging a lower cmc than the catch all counter magic run by control decks. This allows the deck to fight opposing counter magic quite efficiently.
The deck can struggle against permanent based hate such as thalia and other sphere effects. However this is the reason to play Zur over a red splash with Jeleva. Zur has access to removal for these permanents from the command zone without needing mana on the combo turn or a spell cast which gets around rule of law effects.
September 21, 2016 2:39 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #9
Shane.Allen That was unnecessarily hostile. Please consider that you don't need to come off so nasty next time.
September 21, 2016 3:01 p.m.
coinman prob is if i cast doomsday id end up with 5 cards in library buut how do i get them out lol dont i need 1 other cantrip? from hand to start it?
September 21, 2016 3:36 p.m.
Shane.Allen says... #12
Ohthenoises I didn't mean it to sound so nasty, But I really get bothered by people that trash a deck, that I play and talk about it as if they know everything, which in this case has amble proof that iAzire and Raging_Squiggle don't have a clue what they are talking about and if people stopped talking about what they know nothing about the world would be a better place. :)
Skuloth sorry for the wording not being correct, I meant to say it can do a turn 3 win, but as you say the normal is 4-5 depending on the pod your in and what's at the table, still with out a doubt the best most powerful commander deck ever made. P.S. I do give you credit for the design. :)
September 21, 2016 4:15 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #13
I get bothered by people who think they know everything about a player and their experience and whatever they say is always right in any situation. It gives them the false justification to belittle anyone that disagrees with them.
There's a difference between ignorance/trashing a deck and voicing one's opinion. You don't know my experience nor the decks I play against, so don't you dare insult me by thinking you do and that I'm automatically trashing a deck when I'm speaking from my experience.
I spoke my opinion of the doomsday combo itself as I have seen it performed. Regardless of what deck it may ever go in. Never did I say "your deck is shit", "play better combos", or "be a better magic player".
So please, next time think about what you say before you get on your soap box to put down people for voicing their opinions.
September 21, 2016 4:26 p.m.
Shane.Allen says... #14
Raging_Squiggle I voiced my opinion too, I'm guessing you didn't like it and had write a paragraph while shouting that you know your right. Instead of just being a man and saying that "oh I was wrong about the combo and the deck and the way the card is played". That's the difference I only comment when I have something good to say, you like every other troll just likes trashing stuff. Oh and I don't know you and you don't know me people like you never take the time to ask questions or get to know people you just preach your hate and negativity on the web from your mom's basement.
September 21, 2016 4:41 p.m.
Coinman1863 says... #15
z2aaa, The thing is, you cast Doomsday after you cast Ad Nauseam. This allows you to keep a full hand with cantrips, counterspells etc while DD goes off. This is because DD only looks at your Library and graveyard, not you hand.
Hope this answers your question.
September 21, 2016 5:38 p.m.
Shane.Allen, If you feel so strongly about about the combo, perhaps you could help us to understand why it is so good, instead of trying to belittle other people.
What I see is, you making personal attacks, while other people just mentioned not liking a specific combo. It's like you take any attack on the combo as a personal attack on yourself.
I would just like to know, how can the combo not be disrupted? How are you providing enough protection to allow the combo to go off?
Also, how are cards like Gush, Gitaxian Probe, Lion's Eye Diamond, and Yawgmoth's Will not slots that are specifically for the DD Combo. What purpose do these cards serve outside of the combo? I find that they will be wasted slots outside of the combo itself. Thus the combo itself requires more than the two slots mentioned.
I expect Laboratory Maniac is also used with Ad Nauseam, so it is a multipurpose card.
I'm just not seeing the resiliency or how the cards used in the combo are multipurpose.
September 21, 2016 5:48 p.m.
Shane.Allen says... #17
iAzire have you even looked at a full deck with it yet, and have you ever played it or gone up vs. one ? your are you just going by what's on this page and not even bothering to look up mine or Skuloth deck, instead of taking the time to read and learn the deck you just sit here and troll and talk from your arse. If you weren't so lazy you could learn yourself but I guess you have to have things told to you really quite and in a slow voice so that you could understand.
September 21, 2016 5:59 p.m.
Coinman1863 says... #18
iAzire, how do you expect to go off with Tendrils with a high number without those cards? You need those cards so you can get your storm for 40 if need be aside from finishing off DD, especially Gush (free draw), Git Probe (free draw), LED (free mana), and Yawg will (allows you to rinse and repeat). So they do have other uses, it enables you to win in a different way.
September 21, 2016 5:59 p.m.
Anyone saying
is based off of Skuloth's deck is a turn 3 guaranteed win every time
OR
with 4 being the most consistent and basically guaranteed.
Is either confuced, dillusional and just stupid. There are no guarantees, and games may end in several different ways in any turn from the first on. Heck, the goal of the format is to win more than 1/4 of the games. In any other format 30-35% win ration is miserable, but here its plenty. If you go over that, you need to find better competition, otherwise its like playing chess vs kindergardeners.
But yeah, Raging_Squiggle and iAzire are unenlightened about the format; Doomsday is an insanely powerful card and an architype. It's not "wasting 5 cards" on cards you wouldnt play otherwise. Cards like LED and Gush don't seem great unless you look at them at the context, they are solid cards. Casting Nauseam and cracking LED, using Gush to draw cards, are still reasonable, yet niche lines. Doomsday is played because it works.
September 21, 2016 6:05 p.m.
iAzire Gitaxian Probe cycles literally for free so there's no downside to running it. Lion's Eye Diamond is a Black Lotus when you combine it with any wheel or tutor effect, and Gush is more free draw power. Yawgmoth's Will is one of the most powerful utility cards in the game on top of being a completely broken combo enabler- its absolute worst case is a sorcery speed Snapcaster for +1 mana, and it's high point enables stuff like double dark ritual+double LED mana+double High Tide into Time Spiral, which is a fancy way of saying "win the game". You're saying that the best storm enablers in the game are wasted slots in a storm deck; please tell me you see how absurd that is.
September 21, 2016 6:09 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #21
Guys I have no real opinion on the matter but could we please keep the topic a touch more civil on both sides?
You guys are pretty well attacking Squiggle and Azire, how about you help them understand in a nicer fashion rather than belittle them and try to make them feel stupid.
Yes, it may be blatantly obvious to you but remember, there are people out there that think Shocklands and Fetches are terrible cards cause they make you lose life. (Not saying Squiggle and Azire are that bad) it's best to help and inform rather than respond with incredulity.
September 21, 2016 6:59 p.m. Edited.
I don't expect that to happen. As you can tell, Doomsday is a God Combo, it is the epitome of perfection.
It goes off on Turn 3, it is extremely resilient, and it just wins games.
That's it guys!! EDH has been solved!! Now we have to ban the card or forever lose on Turn 3.
There isn't any discussion to be had here, you either worship Doomsday as the Holy Grail of EDH, or you are an idiot.
After reading this discussion, I believe it must be true. Think about the last EDH ban, Prophet of Kruphix. That card doesn't even come close to winning games like Doomsday. Doomsday for Ban!!
September 21, 2016 7:26 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #23
iAzire I just asked people to be more civil. That means you too. Please.
September 21, 2016 8 p.m.
Winning or attempting to win on Turn 3 is more of a norm than an achievement at this point iAzire. Bunch of decks are fast enough to go off on Turn 3, occasionally with backup.
Couple of decks that usually attempt to win before turn 4 in Comp pods
TazriProsshPW TeferiGitrog MonsterMonoB SidisiAny variation of Hermit DruidJeleva and ofc Zur
Decks that do that a decent portion of the time:
SharuumKaradorGhaveJVP
Doomsday is just a strat among strats. Its nothing broken, just a card among cards.
Your pretty annoying Azire. You have yet to say anything of substance. Its customary to contribute to the conversation, but I guess you just chose not to.
September 22, 2016 8:45 a.m.
I thought I had posted my reasoning, but I guess I didn't.
I find the combo too open to disruption. It is also a huge gamble because if it doesn't go off properly it loses you the game.
There are many other combos, (as you mentioned), that look to go off at the same time that won't lose you the game if they don't go off properly.
Somebody mentioned above that you could cast Ad Nauseam before Doomsday to get some added protection in hand. I have to ask at that point, why you aren't just winning with Ad Nauseam? What purpose is Doomsday really serving if you're casting Ad Nauseam beforehand?
Personally I try to keep a good attitude online. I won't be suckered in to your keyboard warrior antics. I hope you have a great day and I look forward to the day we can play Magic together.
Shane.Allen says... #2
please check out my tier 1 commander deck, you will never lose unless you screw up with this deck :) La Fin Absolue Du Monde
September 20, 2016 11:50 p.m.