Are there Any Installments of Popular Franchises that You Ignore?
The Blind Eternities forum
Posted on Nov. 1, 2021, 9:09 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
Canon discontinuity is when an official installment of a long-running franchise ignores a previous installment, such as Superman Returns ignoring Superman III and Superman IV, serving as a sequel to Superman II; when the 2018 Halloween film served as a sequel to the original film and ignored all the others between them; or when Terminator: the Sarah Connor Chronicles ignored Terminator III and served as a sequel to Terminator II. Fanon discontinuity is when the fans choose to ignore, or at least not acknowledge, an installment of a long-running franchise, for various reasons, such as the installment being of poor quality or the fans disagreeing with specific aspects of that installment, such as many fans of The Matrix disliking its sequels or fans of The Godfather refusing to acknowledge The Godfather: Part III.
In this thread, I shall be discussing instances of fanon discontinuity among the users of this forum, and asking what installments of long-running franchises that you prefer to ignore.
As for myself, I prefer to not acknowledge Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, since The Last Crusade was such a perfect conclusion to the film series that no film could adequately follow it. I also prefer to acknowledge only the first two Home Alone films, since they are the films that are famous and helped to make Macaulay Culkin a superstar, while the next three (yes, that is correct; there are five Home Alone films) were nowhere close to the quality of the first two, and were each a standalone film, as well.
What does everyone else say about this? What are your own personal example of "fanon discontinuity?" Do you ignore any installments of any popular franchises?
Lots of horror movies seem to be going down this path, including the recent Halloween movie and I believe the upcoming Scream movie.
I know there’s a big push to decanonise the Star Wars sequel trilogy, on account of the fact they’re pretty bad movies that don’t really respect the rest of the canon, but I seriously doubt that would happen.
November 1, 2021 10:27 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #4
Hostile 3. The first 2 were amazing. Bloody, gorey and the concept and world building were both thought provoking and terrifying. Rich people going over seas to torture and kill any tourist unlucky enough to get caught in the honey pot. Tarantino wasn't involved with that installment so that's probably why it turned into such a garbage fire.
November 1, 2021 10:57 p.m.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #5
The 3rd Mummy (Dragon Emperor) was meh in comparison to it's prequels. The loss of Rachel Wiess didn't help matters.
November 2, 2021 12:58 a.m.
FormOverFunction says... #6
I completely jettisoned the plot, as it was provided, for Bright and replaced it with everything from Shadowrun. That made for a weird conversation with my wife, before I realized what had happened.
November 2, 2021 1:22 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #7
I don't know what Caerwyn is talking about in their second paragraph. There are only three Star Wars Movies.
There. Are. Only. Three.
November 2, 2021 10:12 a.m.
sergiodelrio says... #8
Loved OG Knight Rider.
Hated all other Knight Riders.
November 2, 2021 10:21 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #9
shadow63, why do you believe that? Was Hellraiser 3 a perfect conclusion to the franchise?
November 2, 2021 8:10 p.m.
brandonplaysmagic says... #10
I’ve been a long time fan of Jurassic Park. I believe the original is fantastic, the second is still great (mostly since many plot points are from the original novel AND who doesn’t love a character who uneven bars kicks a velociraptor through a barn door), but anything past it is pure garbage.
November 2, 2021 8:32 p.m.
DemonDragonJ no I don't think they ever wrote an ending of the franchise in any of the movies. But the first 2 are seriously good if you like twisted horror movies and the third one was good enough. But anything after that was a chore to watch.
November 2, 2021 9:58 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #12
brandonplaysmagic, there's a reason for that. Michael Crichton wrote Jurassic Park and about 1/2 was adapted for the first film with some glossing over major details. The second movie skimmed from the rest. After the second movie, it no longer drew inspiration from any source material.
As usual, the book is far superior. For example, the elephant grass scene does not have an entire gaggle of people being hunted by raptors; It's one man attempting to flee off the island.
Also, Nedry (sp?) Isn't eaten alive in the Jeep by the Dilo. The actual account is... well. Horrifyingly brutal with immeasurable carnage.
The watch tower part is considered by most to be the purest form of terror in the whole series. Basically, a man falls off a tower to a swarm of raptors below, in the middle of the night, as the survivors hear him die, helpless from above.
November 3, 2021 6:13 a.m. Edited.
TypicalTimmy says... #13
Fairly certain there's only one Starship Troopers...
November 3, 2021 6:23 a.m.
TypicalTimmy - By that, I assume you mean there is only the book?
November 3, 2021 10:24 a.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #15
I could be, and likely am, wrong but my understanding is that Michael wrote Jurassic Park and it was adapted to film. The studio wanted to expand into a series but Michael felt that he told his story and wanted to leave it at that.
I believe he was eventually talked into writing a second book, which the second movie took inspiration from as well as left over material from the first. He then sold the rights and it was franchised out.
I read the first one in high school. I've heard there's a second, but I've never looked into it.
November 3, 2021 8:25 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #16
Also fun fact: Fans of the series know of the iconic Velociraptor. Casual to intermediate fans of dinosaurs will tell you that this creature is not real and that the Velociraptor was feathered (although not known at the time it was written) and the size of a large chicken or hen. So this was clearly artistic interpretation for audience appeal.
But more experienced fans will be able to tell you that the dinosaur depicted DID exist, was a Utahraptor, and is actually smaller on film than would have been in real life. Michael used the Utahraptor as the dinosaur but the Velociraptor's name because it struck more terror when heard.
:)
November 3, 2021 8:41 p.m. Edited.
Oh, I was talking about Starship Troopers. The movie felt like it was written and directed by someone who never read the book (Paul Verhoeven admitted he did not finish reading anything other than the first two chapters).
November 3, 2021 8:41 p.m.
isnt quite the same thing, but it amuses me that harry potter fans have almost universally decided that the books appeared from the aether and have chosen to ignore JK Rowlings existence.
November 3, 2021 9:48 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #21
The BBC's Sherlock Holmes series with Bendernick Cucumberpatch as Holmes has three episodes in the final season fans largely regard as "missing" because they were pad episodes for the series length. These are literally just 40 minutes each of interviews of the cast and crew. Nothing more.
Does that count?
November 3, 2021 10:17 p.m.
BBC makes some great shows, their Robin Hood was very good, though i can not find it anywhere to stream currently.
November 3, 2021 10:58 p.m.
spoonieluv1023 says... #23
As a horror fan, there are several instances where I ignore specific movies as canon. Halloween 3, Jason Goes to Hell, anything after Jaws 2, etc. However, the most egregious offender in my book that I refuse to acknowledge is I'll Always Know What You Did Last Summer. That was a complete dumpster fire.
November 4, 2021 7:57 a.m.
shadow63, DemonDragonJ: I actually really liked Hellraiser 4: Bloodlines. The Cenobites in it were better than the Cenobites in part 3 by far, and the story of the LeMerchand bloodline was cool I thought. I didn't mind the futuristic part because it was only a third of movie. AND it does serve as an "ending" to the series. Other than that I agree, everything else is hard to consider canon, especially when at least two of those movies were actually written as independent storylines and the Hellraiser mythos was crammed in at the last minute to "make it better."
Caerwyn, Gidgetimer: I feel like horror-movie writers nowadays are just too lazy to watch an entire franchise before they say to themselves, "Oh, I totally got this." Even Danny McBride and his buddy seem to have decannonized Halloween 2 (which was good!) AND the original ending of Haloween part 1. Wtf, why?
As for Star Wars, I believe in six movies, the Clone Wars series and its spinoffs, the Mandalorian its upcoming spinoffs and am currently waiting for Dave and Jon to add everything else back in. If they can connect to those other Star Wars-INSPIRED movies then ok, I guess. We'll see.
spoonieluv1023: Phew! Speaking of the Halloween series, I'm glad you mentioned Halloween 3, lol! That movie literally makes no sense. I guess the guy who was given control of the series thought he would make the Halloween series about evil masks instead of what the first two were about? I can only guess why there were robots in it though.
And unfortunately I don't remember ever seeing Jason Goes to Hell, but I believe you.
And my own contribution:
Nobody has mentioned the OG black-sheep-of-the-franchise, Highlander 2. One of the first "big name" movie series to just flat out ignore one of its own movies was the Highlander franchise. Highlander 2's origin story involving an alien world has never been referenced in any following movie, and has in fact been directly contradicted. Also, I personally cannot stand the last one, "Highlander: The Source" because it also tries to do what Highlander 2 was punished for. And it's just... really goofy at times. And kinda disrespectful when they broke MacLeod's sword and made him use big knives.
As for Jurassic Park, I have read the first book, like last CENTURY though, jeez, lol. As for the movies, the ones in between the first one and the new Chris Pratt ones are just okay, but I don't remember any big contradictions in them, so I don't mind them being there. If I'm just not remembering the storyline real good, then feel free to point out what I'm missing.
November 4, 2021 1:38 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #25
One thing I’ve gotten better at, thanks to near-impossible levels of work on my wife’s part, is to see new instances (sequels, reboots, covers, etc) as just additional potential wins. Many will fall short, but none of them actually take anything away from me. I get to enjoy Ford as Han until I die, regardless of Ford’s personal feelings about any of it (apologies to Ford, maybe?). I get to enjoy Appetite For Destruction with the push of a button regardless of whatever the hell is going on with Rose or Slash or if The Backstreet Boys produce a horrible cover album of it. I’m going to be fine AND... there’s a non-zero chance that the album might be a new thing I enjoy forever too. It’s made my life a lot more enjoyable.
November 4, 2021 2:52 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #26
Looking back again... sorry if this came across as a stern finger-wagging, that’s definitely not the intention. Just trying to justify to myself why I liked the first and last Dune movies AND the book, but didn’t like OR hate the scifi channel’s version.
November 4, 2021 2:55 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #27
Gattison, My opinion on why horror has been on the decline is because of the apparent disconnect between the horror genre and the terror genre. Many people, as I've noticed, tend to use the term "Horror" to describe "Terror". And why it is true that, as with art and comedy, it befalls the eye of the beholder for what constitutes as what, but there must also be an objective analysis of each to better understand their target audiences.
Horror is largely defined by the grotesque. Something that should repulse and recoil you to your core. It should be something that churns your stomach, instills a sense of dread, something that makes you have an existential crisis of your psyche and soul. An example is John Carpenter's THE THING, as well as Hellraiser and earlier seasons of The Walking Dead - what you are faced with is an unstoppable presence of inhumane origins that seeks the evisceration Humanity while forsaking morality and spirituality. It is horrifying because of the sheer and brash disregard for life and the almost-pleasure it takes in doing so.
But terror is largely defined fear. A deeply seeded fear that causes panic, anxiety, seclusion, isolation, depression and helplessness. Terror is being stalked by an unknown presence. Not knowing if your loved ones made it out alive. Being betrayed by those you trusted. It rattles your core and shakes your soul. It sends chills down your spine and makes you physically weak. You're more likely to collapse into a fetal position than to fight back. Terror might be like Friday the 13th, Jaws and Jurassic Park.
The underlying issue is that each person feels these two genres differently. For some, Jaws may instill true horror, the same way THE THING does. Or, perhaps the now silly movie Eight Legged Freaks will cause nightmares in someone with Arachnophobia.
There is a massive overlap between Horror and Terror, and because of this it must be clearly defined on its fringe edges. But this also means that unless a movie reigns in on those fringes, it can often times feel like both Horror as well as Terror. The problem comes down to marketing at that point; If a movie is marketed as Horror but there's really nothing horrifying about it, then it can largely be seen as a failure - even if it does instill a dreadful sense of terror.
For example, I don't believe the T-1000 stalking a little boy to execute him is necessarily horrifying, but it certainly IS terrifying. Conversely, a small child being hunted by Xenomorph is both horrifying AND terrifying. But why? Why is one different from the other?
Because in Terminator, John can escape. He has wits, intelligence, weapons, evasion, open terrain and a plan.
But, Newt (The young girl in the ALIEN franchise) is helpless, trapped in ductwork on a space ship, being hunted by a swarm of Aliens who have slaughtered 95% of the crew.
Also, Aliens harvest Humans as incubation chambers. That truly is horrifying. Later interpretations of Terminator do elude toward Human harvesting, but we don't see that in T1-T3. So, we can't call it Horror by the same metric.
That elevation is what warrants the change. But because Horror and Terror are fluid, in this regard, it's quite difficult to actually pin them down with any real and meaningful merit.
So nowadays, we use the terms interchangeably, when in actuality they are not. And thus, we feel a disconnect in the genres and franchises.
November 4, 2021 4:04 p.m. Edited.
TypicalTimmy Is there a "terror" genre?
The way I had the difference between terror and horror explained to me, that I think makes sense, is that terror is what you feel before something happens and horror is what you feel after it happens. Terror is climbing the staircase and opening the door. Horror is seeing what's inside.
So as a genre, "terror" would be suspense, psychological horror, and some surreal horror. "Horror" would be slasher, grindhouse, and splatter, and that sort of thing. The two can easily overlap and coexist, but as broad strokes, that's how I understand the difference.
November 4, 2021 6:02 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #29
Imagine a scenario:
- Jane ran through the blanket of darkness, seemingly merging the vacant thicket of woods with the dilapidated farmhouse. Barely able to make her steps known thanks to the dim moonlight, she found no such forgiveness once inside. The shallow void of sensory deprivation seemingly extended beyond eternity. Inching forward one frantically careful step at a time, Jane perused the hallways to find some semblance of peace to console her mind and emotions. The blood of Brandon, still wet on her palms, forearms and chest, was a lingering reminder of all she had lost. Upon her deeper investigation into the old building, subtle noises became apparent. The creak of wood in the chilling air; The scurrying of mice and birds; The gentle rattling of windows as the drafts batter them. Deep into the home, she discovered a room where the door was ajar. She knew it was wrong to look, but her instincts were vanished by the fear of the unknown...
Suppose upon opening the door, she finds nothing. Then, from behind her, the silent killer stabs a hunting knife into her shoulder. She screams and runs and frantically attempts to fight back. That's terrifying; Watching your friend die and being stalked in the darkness.
But what if instead, she opens the door only to find Brandon's body, skinned and gutted, strung up across the walls like a tapestry? With photos of her and Brandon pinned all around the room, with blood smeared into the words "THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN US"
That's horrifying.
The difference comes down to the subtle feelings: One is a sense of dread and fear, one is repulsion and sickness.
At least, that's how I've always known it to be.
November 4, 2021 10:56 p.m.
Metroid_Hybrid says... #30
There are only two Alien and Terminator movies as far as I'm concerned..
Although Terminator Salvation was okay from what I remember. But don't get me started on the other plot-hole riddled dumpster fires..
November 5, 2021 12:51 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #32
Metroid_Hybrid, I agree that the first two movies in each of those series were the best, and everything else that followed simply ruined the franchises, so I prefer to not speak of them, either.
November 5, 2021 8:51 a.m.
I don't consider Predator 2 to be canon. Fuck that, some ridiculous cop chasing after a predator in the city the entire time, with lightning strikes doing crazy shit. I liked most of the rest of predator movies, and I think that the first predator vs alien was kind of a bummer. #2 of this alright as well, but I loved the interaction of the predator dubbed 'scar' with the main character and giving her an honorary title of 'warrior' on her cheek with xenomorph blood. The most recent predator movie was probably my favorite, mainly because it updated the philosophy of the predator, as he is the predator of predators in our society, which wasn't ever explicated in any of the movies except for the newest one.
November 5, 2021 7:46 p.m.
TypicalTimmy: I agree with your assessment, and legendofa's nutshell-version is a great way to put it. It sounds like your coming close to describing the "Thriller" genre, which touches upon some of the facets of "terror" that you pointed out, but is distinctly different from we know as the "Horror" genre. The horror genre encompasses both horror-based and terror-based stories and doesn't make any distinction among them for us fans.
I would say Halloween leans more in the "Terror"-based direction, while I would say Hellraiser leans more toward "Horror"-based. Halloween and movies like it are know for trying to scare the audience by making them worry about a character's death, or by having something "jump out at you" suddenly. Hellraiser and movies like it are more about trying to shock or gross out the audience by showing mutilated bodies, or a gruesome death.
Imho, terror-based stories are generally better than horror-based ones because they are more cerebral. Being terrified is more of a mental experience than being horrified is, at least in my mind. Using the example you provided above, if Jane opens the door and sees Brandon's mutilated corpse all strung up on display, there's actually not a lot left to the imagination at this point. You can really only assume that somebody (or something) killed Brandon and then went to work defiling his corpse. The only mystery left is "who did it?" Was it one of the characters we met earlier? Was it somebody we haven't seen yet?
If Jane opens the door, sees nothing, feels a moment of reprieve from her fear, only to BAM be attacked from behind, then there are a lot more questions there. How did they get there? Did the attacker wait for her? Did they follow her? Did they lure her up the stairs with sounds? Were they hiding in the shadows? Or is there a more supernatural explanation? Why is this happening? Is it just because they camped at Crystal Lake, or does it have something to do with Jane and Brandon personally?
To me, terror-based stories are more thought-provoking, and require more imagination and creativity to produce. Horror-based stories too easily devolve into an almost childish display of shock-value-one-upsmanship. Going back to Halloween and Hellraiser, each has all the important elements of both sub-genres of Horror (horror/terror), but each focusing on a different aspect in the longrun.
Metroid_Hybrid, DemonDragonJ: No Sarah Connor Chronicles for you then?
9-lives: lol, aw I liked Predator 2. The Predator's weapons and gear were so cool in that movie! I myself disapprove of Robert Rodriguez's Predators (2010). That's the one I "forget" about.
November 6, 2021 6:40 p.m.
Gattison I did enjoy seeing the med kit of the preadtor in the bathroom though. That was the highlight of Predator 2 for me. They have the weirdest ways of healing themselves and often very painful.
November 6, 2021 6:46 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #36
Gattison, I cannot believe that I forgot The Sarah Connor Chronicles, as I thoroughly enjoyed that series, but I have conflicting emotions about it; on one side, that series was a far better follow-up to Terminator 2 than was Terminator 3, but, on the other side, I still feel that T2 ended so well that any attempt to follow it would only dilute the impact of its ending.
November 6, 2021 10:52 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #37
The third season of Gargoyles was produced with minimal input from the original staff, which resulted in storylines of quality far less than those of the previous seasons, so the creator of the series, Greg Weisman, regards it as non-canon, and, thus, I do, as well.
November 14, 2021 8:58 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #38
I consider Yu-Gi-Oh to have ended after GX, the one with the Dual Academy. Anything after that is kind of trash, in my honest opinion.
Season Zero is bomb though.
November 14, 2021 9:02 p.m.
Heck yeah, DemonDragonJ! Gargoyles was sooo good. But I don't remember much of it, haha.
November 15, 2021 1:44 p.m.
TheoryCrafter says... #40
Arrow, Constantine, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow, Black Lightning and Batwoman aired in chronological order up to and including Crisis on Infinite Earths. Then ONLY the final episodes of Arrow. That is all the Arrowverse you will ever need.
February 12, 2022 1:43 a.m.
TypicalTimmy hehe I remember i used to have a VHS tape of the preview for the Yugioh episodes in the mail. Don't know where it went, but I imagine it would be worth a pretty penny if I still had it.
shadow63 says... #2
Anything past hell rasier 3 doesn't exsist
November 1, 2021 9:28 p.m.