So I have a question that might come out as multiple questions. So, on the topic of new commanders from c16, three have been thrown around as potential tier one: Breya,Yidris, and Thrasios. While Breya might end up as high tier two potentially, Yidris and Thrasios seem to be tier one, although I feel is too early to make that assumption on Yidris without more testing, he does seem capable of doing it. This question is about Thrasios however. If Thrasios is tier one then what deck would be tier one with him piloting the helm? I've heard that he is going to be used as a four color, better Tasigur, although personally I agree with this I still do not like the idea of adding white and will personally just be doing sultai for him with Silas Renn. Yet, I have seen plenty of arguments and some decklist sprinkled about for four color Thrasios but going the Boomweaver route as a better Karador. I have seen decklist for both and they both seem plenty viable the question is will, Thrasios be tier one as the better Tasigur or tier one as the better Karador?

I really don't think Thrasios should be tier 1. My friend has spent about a week trying to brew a deck around him and every other decent partner general, and it's not going so well. I'm unsure that Thrasios can be consistent enough for a tier 1 placement. I'd put him in tier 2 at best.

Really? That is very suprising. Hes basically better than Tasigur at everything but body size and the occassionaly political play. What issues is he facing?

In other news, I have a random rule question. Lets say I exile 25 cards with Necropotence and put them in my hand at my end step. Assuming one of those cards is Chain of Vapor and I have the U to cast it, can I bounce my Necropotence before I discard to keep my cards from being exiled?

I haven't had a lot of experience with him myself, so it could just be that my friend is just a crappy deckbuilder...

I'd probably disregard my opinion until we can test some more.

Lilbrudder - That works. Necro puts that cards in your hand at the beginning of the next end step, so you have priority before going to the cleanup step, which would be when you would discard down to hand size.

I think the answer is yes if you state before the discard is in set, in response to necropotence trigger you bounce necropotence.

513.1. First, all abilities that trigger at the beginning of the end step or at the beginning of the next end step go on the stack. (See rule 603, Handling Triggered Abilities.) #

513.1a Previously, abilities that trigger at the beginning of the end step were printed with the trigger condition at end of turn. Cards that were printed with that text have received errata in the Oracle card reference to say at the beginning of the end step or at the beginning of the next end step. #

513.2. Second, the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities. #

513.3. If a permanent with an ability that triggers at the beginning of the end step enters the battlefield during this step, that ability wont trigger until the next turns end step. Likewise, if a delayed triggered ability that triggers at the beginning of the next end step is created during this step, that ability wont trigger until the next turns end step. In other words, the step doesnt back up so those abilities can go on the stack. This rule applies only to triggered abilities; it doesnt apply to continuous effects whose durations say until end of turn or this turn.

Thats good to hear. Thank you :-)

I'm offended by the Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis comment haha! Group hug is the ultimate challenge as you are accelerating everyone else also. Multiplayer is very political, no one tries to kill the group hug, you save most of your resources for the last guy because you usually make it to the last 2. I made one (changed from 5 to 4 colour now thanks to tiro) and it is a ton of fun to change the game by saving people and helping the ones who get a bad start. I made one because after making over 50 commander decks I was ready for something new lol. Don't knock a group hug until you have played and won multiple games with one. Tier 4 would be more accurate imho.

On a side note the group hug comes in handy when I playtest over 20 deck in one game lol

Just to remember. The French Duel Commander banlist has been updated. Yawgmoth's Bargain is now legal, Serra Ascendant is now legal, Grindstone is now legal, Necropotence is now legal, and Balance is now legal. Could someone please update Duel Commander decks Legality?

This is strictly multiplayer

Where should I post it?

As far as I know there is no tier list for dual commander on tappedout.

Pretty late, but you can bounce Necro before your end step and it still works. From gatherer:

6/8/2016: Necropotences last ability creates a delayed triggered ability that will put the exiled card into your hand. That ability still triggers even if Necropotence is removed from the battlefield before your end step.

So you can activate its ability, bounce it with some sorcery speed ability, then still get the cards without having to exile them.

pretty sure the necrop question was answered.

On the other hand, What list were we using for Atraxa's t3? I know superfriends does exists but Im pretty sure a-stax-a works and HD+doomsday seems viable. Can I get an explanation and possibly a decklist for reference please? Thanks.

@chaosumbreon87 im pretty sure all of the new listings are just place holders until lists are out and optimized

@chaosumbreon87 But if you're looking for a fairly competitive list, I spent a bit of time tuning this when she was spoiled: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/renewable-resources-atraxa-toolbox-stax/

I'm not sure if this is what it will look like completely optimized by minds greater than mine, but I hope this helps.

thanks. as custom, heres my attempted atraxa HD: atraxa

URL: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/25-10-16-yGu-atraxa/

been messing around with yawgwin after hd shell but need to cut 13 now. Before the yawg backup, I goldfished expected win: T4.1 out of 20 games so i figure that thats a t7ish tier 2 for now.

Now, time for the listing of all those 15 partners! I would need help placing them, because as far as I know we mainly discussed Thrasios, which I think will end up tier 2 for now, but what about the others? Are they all tier 3/4???

Partner commanders alone IMHO:

Akiri, Line-Slinger: tier 4

Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder: tier 4

Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper: tier 4

Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker: tier 3 (seems strong with kraum or either simic partner)

Kraum, Ludevic's Opus: tier 3 (seems like jhoira chaos but more norin and more reward for chaos)

Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix: tier 3 (might be bumped to t2 since zeg shenanigans)

Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist: tier 4 (political chaos [dont start the joke] so might bump to tier 3)

Ravos, Soultender: tier 3 (reanimator?)

Reyhan, Last of the Abzan: tier 4 (can bump to t3 possibly with ishal)

Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa: tier 4 (t3 possible since we can build our own doran)

Silas Renn, Seeker Adept: tier 3-4

Tana, the Bloodsower: tier 3 (purph and panharm?)

Thrasios, Triton Hero: tier 2-3

Tymna the Weaver: tier 3

Vial Smasher the Fierce: tier 4

hesitant to outright call any t5. Way too many options atm for my opinions on partner combinations.

I had an interesting thought the other day. Vial smasher paired with a U/x commander and then take infinite turns. Each turn you deal damage but infinite turns means opponents just die.

Thoughts?

This might be slightly off-topic, so I'll drop it in a spoiler to save space.

teferis moat? pillowfort can replace some combo imo but your call

So I made a Kami of the Crescent Moon extra turn deck and have played it against reasonably powerful commanders, (kallia, purph) and won the first game and the second game with a lot of hate. Now, both those games I was pretty lucky but it seems kind of odd that a tier 5 deck should be hated on by tier 3 decks...

chaosumbreon87I understand some of your placements for the partner commanders but some I'm questioning a bit. Like why Thrasois is tier 2-3? I understand he goes infinite with infinite mana, but so do many others commanders that are in tier 4 or 5. Also some seem to be a little more powerful than your giving them credit for, such as Reyhan (double modular/excellent with Ravos or Ishai), Akiri (Cranial Plating on a stick with relevant keywords, paired with Bruse Tarl she is very good), and Sidar Kondo (very strong with most of the other partner commanders, such as Tymna, Tana, Silas Renn, and maybe Ludevic). Also if you were to a partner commander in tier 5 it would probably have to be someone like Ikra Shidiqi or maybe Ludevic.

Penguin_Gamer_1 I'm hesitant to give any commander t5 or t1 status both due to my own principles and the fact that many have not been tested for full potentials yet. I may have missed things but those ratings were my current opinions. Secondly, my list is for them alone so while I accept your pairings suggestions, I am treating them as if they were alone. Third, maybe i should explain a little more about the choices you pointed out:

Akiri and Reyhan-yes double strike and artifact synergy but many problems there. First, you still have to deal 63 damage. Second, boros lacks many of the relevant interactions and responses necessary to keep her alive. Third, boros lacks significant draw power so wraths and mass removal tend to shut it down effectively. I can see t3 though.

Sidar Kondo- yes his ability is strong. But he lacks many of the relevant things that make other commanders better. Doran adds a strong ability and the addition of black tutors. Edric has blue for the draw power and turns win condition.

Ikra Shidiqi- hesitant about t5

Ludevic- izzet politics seem decent but this may be biassed due to my norin deck so i'll accept. Still hesitant about t5.

I'll be happy to explain further about any of my choices.

Dunadain group hugs tend to be underestimated but they have their strong suits. They have the ability to pull a win out of nowhere (pheldahippo can go infinite combo but people tend to sit back and group hug. Lastly, t4 and t5 are rarely changed so it is possible that some rose in recent sets.