can your opponent tap an already tapped car
Asked by stnkfngrs 6 years ago
i was playing an opponent at my schools mtg club. i was running slivers and he was playing with control. I would use Gemhide Sliver 's ability to get mana to cast a spell but when after i tapped my card and told my opponent what spell i was casting he would cast an instant (i dont know the exact card but its affect was tap target creature) to tap a sliver that i used to pay for the mana cost of my spell therefore making it unable to be used for mana. is that how it works or does he have to tap it before i declare my card tapped for the cost of my spell?
He cannot do this.
Rule 605 defines Mana Abilities.
Mana abailities must: (a) not have a target; (b) add mana to your mana pool when it resolves, and (c) not be a loyalty ability (Rule 605.1a). Gemhide Sliver's ability meets all these criteria, and thus can be considered a mana ability.
Pursuant to Rule 605.3b, mana abilities do not go on the stack--they cannot be "targeted, countered, or otherwise responded to. Rather, it resolves immediately after it is activated."
Pursuant to the above rules, what your friend did is against the rules.
Since mana abilities are a bit odd, I wanted to provide you the answer for non-mana abilities as well. Let's say it is the same hypothetical, but you are activating Telekinetic Sliver. Your friend could still not tap down your creature to prevent its ability from activating.
The activation cost itself is not a part of the stack--only the ability it creates is. In your situation, you have already paid the costs and put the ability on the stack. Your opponent cannot undo your paying the costs, and thus cannot retroactively nulify your use of Telekinetic Sliver.
Let's say things were changed, and your opponent played the tap spell first. The tap spell is on the stack, but has not resolved. You may tap your Telekinetic Sliver in response, while your opponent's ability is on the stack, activating the Sliver's ability. Your ability will resolve; followed by their ability, which will hit an already tapped creature.
Edit: Ninja'd by Tyrant-Thanatos
February 6, 2018 2:21 p.m. Edited.
Tyrant-Thanatos says... #3
cdkime: You also covered the fact that (s)he can tap in response while the tapping spell/ability is on the stack though, something I intended to mention but slipped my mind lol.
So yeah, to summarize: there's a slew of reasons this doesn't work. Mana Abilities don't use the stack, Costs are paid before your opponent has a chance to respond, plus you can just respond to the spell with said abilities.
February 6, 2018 2:29 p.m. Edited.
Tyrant-Thanatos says... #5
I feel like I should add that there is actually a circumstance under which your opponent could make successful use of a tapping spell here.
Lets say your opponent has a Downpour in hand, and untapped lands necessary to cast it. You have Gemhide Sliver or Manaweft Sliver and two other miscellaneous Slivers in play (maybe Metallic Slivers, or tokens from Hive Stirrings). Now, you want to tap these three slivers to cast say Opaline Sliver. During your Upkeep, before you draw your card for the turn, if you choose to do nothing, thereby passing priority to your opponent, your opponent can cast Downpour targeting your three slivers. Now, you can still tap them for mana in response, but that mana will disappear the moment your upkeep step ends, so unless you have an Instant in your hand you can cast, that mana is useless to you. With no instants in your hand, your only choices are to tap you slivers for worthless mana that immediately disappears, or let Downpour resolve and tap your slivers anyways. The result is the same, your slivers are tapped, and you can't make use of them.
February 6, 2018 3 p.m. Edited.
I would personally recommend reviewing the way Steps and phases of a turn work, how the stack operates, the general rules for mana abilities, and player priority (also known as APNAP). brushing up on those rules can help you determine how to better proceed in the future.
February 6, 2018 3:41 p.m.
Tyrant-Thanatos says... Accepted answer #7
I agree wholeheartedly with DJSeras. It's a good step as a newer player either way. A common misconception I see among newer players is that the active player has control over when the steps and phases proceed, and this is not at all the case. The game controls these things.
Also, if you would mark one of the responses as an accepted answer stnkfngrs so this question can be moved from the Unanswered queue to the answered questions, we'd appreciate it.
February 6, 2018 3:47 p.m.
thank you Tyrant-Thanatos i didn't know i had to do that. and thank you, all y'all have been really helpful in helping me understand this more.
Tyrant-Thanatos says... #1
Yeah so here's the deal: The Stack.
If your opponent casts say, Twiddle to tap down Gemhide Sliver, it doesn't tap the sliver until it resolves, which doesn't happen until all players pass priority. Mana Abilities (abilities that generate mana) do not even use the stack. If it's your turn, during your main phase, you get priority, at which point you can tap slivers for mana, cast spells, activate abilities, and your opponent can't cast instants until you pass priority to let your effects resolve. And aside even from this, everything before the : in an activated ability is part of the cost, and cannot be responded to.
In simple terms, no, this is not how it works at all. You can't use a spell or ability that taps a creature in response to its ability to interrupt or in any way disrupt the activation or resolution of said ability.
Edit: And furthermore, in regards to "or does he have to tap it before i declare my card tapped for the cost of my spell?": Even that wouldn't work really. If your opponent casts a spell during your upkeep to tap your sliver(s), then maybe. But during your Main Phase, your opponent can not just do things, they have to wait for you, the active player, to pass priority.
February 6, 2018 2:18 p.m. Edited.