can i copy curses?

Asked by Casper00901 2 years ago

If I have a curse such as Torment of Scarabs + March of the Machines then use Liquimetal Coating to make my curse an artifact + creature, would I then be able to make copies with Progenitor Mimic ?

enpc says... #1

Found this forum post from a few years back. Short answer is yes.

Long answer is becuase of rule 201.5: "If an ability of an object uses a phrase such as this [something] to identify an object, where [something] is a characteristic, it is referring to that particular object, even if it isnt the appropriate characteristic at the time."

This means that the Progenitor Mimic's ability actually reads "At the beginning of your upkeep, if this object isn't a token, create a token that's a copy of this object."

July 16, 2017 8:36 p.m.

Casper00901 says... #2

thanks enpc. wasn't sure if would work nut find any ruling saying otherwise.

July 16, 2017 9:30 p.m.

Neotrup says... #3

Although implied, I feel it should be stated that neither the Progenitor Mimic nor the tokens are artifacts or creature, but rather simply enchantments.

Also, the token curses are being put onto the battlefield without targeting, so they can enchant any player, even one with hexproof or shroud, and do not have to enchant the initially cursed player.

July 17, 2017 1:37 a.m.

Neotrup says... Accepted answer #4

And what both myself and enpc missed is that as soon as an aura becomes a creature it unattaches from the permanent or player (704.5q), then gets put into the graveyard for being an aura that isn't enchanting anything (704.5n), so it wouldn't exist to be copied by the Progenitor Mimic. Best I can think of is play Copy Enchantment not copying anything, then use your trick to make Progenitor Mimic a Copy Enchantment (again not copying anything), then each upkeep make a new Copy Enchantment, choosing to copy the Torment of Scarabs.

July 17, 2017 1:44 a.m.

enpc says... #5

Neotrup: Nice pickup, totally missed that bit.

Casper00901: Can you please change the accepted answer to Neotrup's.

July 17, 2017 4:12 a.m.

Casper00901 says... #6

so what enpc and Neotrup are trying to say is to make it work i would have to turn Torment of Scarabs into a artifact with Liquimetal Coating then play Phyrexian Metamorph as a copy of it then enchant with Mechanized Production? at least i think this version would be legal. this way the deck only has to have blue and black.

July 20, 2017 6:48 a.m.

Casper00901 says... #7

never mind copies are only as the card is orginally printed.

July 20, 2017 10:38 a.m.

Neotrup says... #8

That does actually work, because Phyrexian Metamorph specifies that it's a copy except that it's an artifact in addition to it's other types, so the metamorph will be an Artifact Enchantment - Aura and can be enchanted with mechanized production. Because the artifactiness is a copiable attribute (as it was applied by another copy effect) the tokens made by Mechanized Production will also be artifacts and you can win that way, though I suspect the effect of the curse will win faster.

July 20, 2017 11:04 a.m.

Casper00901 says... #9

thank you Neotrup

July 20, 2017 12:58 p.m.

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