Humble Defector's playability in Twin
Modern forum
Posted on Feb. 15, 2015, 9:33 p.m. by bijschjdbcd
So my main issues.
Its influence on the tempo side of Twin, Keeping mana up for Remand or Mana Leak on Turn 2 or Playing him?
Involving yourself to much in the combo, For instance if you end of your opponents turn 3 you draw 4 off the Defector by holding priority with the ability on the stack and then untap it with an Exarch or Mite to reactivate the ability.
You do this and play even further into removal should your opponent have it.
Has anyone else been playtesting with it?
someone had humble defector in a twin deck at the pro tour.
February 15, 2015 10:09 p.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #4
Thanks Asher18.
Yes shuflw Makito Mihara did but I couldn't find the deck list anywhere.
I was refering to it being played at the PT.
February 15, 2015 10:11 p.m.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/pro-tour-fate-reforged-day-one-round-by-round
Makihito Mihara
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKVdQIJcWQc
FF to 3:30 for the defector. i remember he untapped it with an exarch once.
February 15, 2015 10:15 p.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #6
Both the mentioned links lack a decklist.
Regardless, Thoughts on the card in Twin?
February 15, 2015 10:17 p.m.
he was playing grixis too. i don't see a list anywhere either. i would think it would be all over the internets by now.
February 15, 2015 10:17 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #8
Not playable. Cute, but there's no reason to play fundamentally bad cards.
February 15, 2015 10:24 p.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #9
Im inclined to agree, Care to elaborate on the reasons it is bad?
February 15, 2015 10:26 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #10
It's fundamentally bad in that it allows your opponents to draw cards as well. If you're on a more all-in version it seems better than in the tempo/control versions of the deck, but I'd rather play a cantrip because it's lower variance.
It's somewhat like Pact of Negation. Your reasoning for playing it generally is "I don't care about the drawback because the game won't go that far". Humble Defector will be bad in the same sort of situations Pact is bad, and those come up more often in Twin than in other combo decks.
February 15, 2015 10:30 p.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #11
That's pretty much the conclusion I came to, It greatly increases the potential and consistency of a Turn 4 Twin.
That being said I couldn't figure out why Mihara was playing it, He is an innovative and skilled player but from what I saw from his game wasn't all in on the combo.
I don't think it is a fundamentally bad card in the deck, Its more situationally bad.
February 15, 2015 10:35 p.m.
This thing was incredibly surprising when Makihito Mihara played it this during the Pro Tour. Just look at how Lee Shi Tian reacts to the tap, pestermite, tap, draw 4 sequence. This is pure cheese. Imagine trying to set this up when your opponent has knowledge. It seems straight up disrespectful to your opponent. Really? You think they're not going to pick up on it eventually?
February 16, 2015 12:28 a.m.
I think it's better if you can reliably find a way to capitalize on its benefits without allowing your opponents to benefit at all from it.
I've tried it in a Boros Twin shell similar to the initial list that Stanislav Cifka tried a while back. Restoration Angel helps a lot to keep him from defecting, and you can always activate then Path to Exile him against creature-light decks to get a ramp and draw two.
I don't think it's terrible, but Humble Defector works much better in non-blue builds where card advantage is scant at best, and even so it's a really hard argument to not just be playing UR or URx.
My decklist is below, for reference. It's competitive but not at the level of UR Twin. I think that's generally how you can view Humble Defector as a card, too. Good, but not quite good enough.
Boros HumbleTwin Playtest
Modern
SCORE: 0 | 0 COMMENTS | 1 VIEWSFebruary 16, 2015 2:06 a.m.
Its fine if you're playing all-in twin. It's not so much if you're playing more tempo / control options. To call it cheese is a bit strong. I mean, it IS able to be dealt with.
February 16, 2015 6:40 a.m.
AllAroundGeek says... #15
It's draw 2 cards for 2 mana,4 cards if you can flash in something to untap it, and can be a block before you draw. But... it does the exact same thing for your opponent, and makes you more vulnerable. Like others have said, if you are going the non-interactive route, then this could be ok, but in a tempo control deck, it seems to be either not giving you your 2 manas worth or benefiting your opponent more then you
February 16, 2015 8:08 a.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #16
This card generates 4 cards for you, Assuming you combo Turn 4 they get nothing. If the don't they get 2 cards.
You are still up on Cards.
February 16, 2015 8:11 a.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #17
Also I undersand the two archetypes.
Has anyone got any potential answers to why Mihara decided to play it? As far as i am aware he primarily play tests alone and his deck from what i saw was most definitely not all in on the combo.
February 16, 2015 8:16 a.m.
AllAroundGeek says... #18
Oh yeah, sorry, I missed the "Activate this ability only on your turn", that does make it better, but still think you would be much better off leaving Remand mana open
February 16, 2015 8:17 a.m.
Mihara probably played it because he decided to use black discard spells on 1 mana (Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek) as his interaction and then pop Mr. Defecto down on turn two to either attack/use on turn three or, if the combo was unavailable, Twin him up on turn 4 to create a draw 2 per turn engine. It's probably why he also played so many maindeck Spellskites in order to protect both his combo and this particular advantage/setup piece.
February 16, 2015 4:28 p.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #20
But he is most definitely not all in on the combo.
February 16, 2015 4:55 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #21
Sure he is. He has Kiki-Jiki in his deck, which is the biggest indicator of being all-in.
February 16, 2015 4:56 p.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #22
I run Kiki Jiki but im still content on beating people down with Pestermites.
February 16, 2015 5:03 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #23
Also, the fact that he's playing a Pact of Negation-esque card makes me think he's trying to win with the combo or bust.
February 16, 2015 5:06 p.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #24
Assuming your referring to the Defector?
It appears to be a super sweet form of card advantage, But it just feels super cute.
Asher18 says... #2
Humble Defector for those who need
February 15, 2015 9:59 p.m.