Stormtide Leviathan + Gauntlet of Power in EDH
Asked by Goody 12 years ago
Let's say my opponents do not have blue in their commander's color identity. I control Stormtide Leviathan so their lands are now also Islands, but they can't produce blue mana - it would only produce colorless if they chose to use the "Island" part of their lands. I've chosen the color blue with my Gauntlet of Power .
Would my opponents add one colorless mana or two colorless mana to their mana pool if they use a land's "T: add U to your mana pool"?
As I understand it (Which may not be perfect, mind you) the Gauntlet of Power will automatically add U to the mana pool no matter what basic land is tapped and no matter what type of mana it is tapped for. Therefore, your opponent should get 2 mana for each basic land. One of them would be colorless and the other would be whatever color they tapped a basic land for. Note that it says basic land so if they tap a Sunpetal Grove or something of the like, they would not get the bonus from the Gauntlet of Power .
April 8, 2013 1:09 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #3
Because your opponent can't create blue mana, then a permanent they control can't be tapped for blue mana, even if it is an "Island" now.
I think only you would benefit from the mana doubling.
April 8, 2013 1:13 p.m.
903.9. If mana would be added to a player's mana pool of a color that isn't in the color identity of that player's commander, that amount of colorless mana is added to that player's mana pool instead..
That means the game sees which type of mana you were trying to produce, checks it against the colour identity of your general, and then if that mana is not in the colour identity, replaces it with colorless mana.
IE: You're still able to tap that land which is now an island in addition to its other types, for blue mana, which will cause the Gauntlet to add another U mana, both of which will fail to find blue in their commander's colour identity and add colourless instead.
April 8, 2013 1:20 p.m.
I'm inclined to agree with Devonin, based on the fact that the quoted EDH color identity ruling is a replacement effect (due to the use of the word instead). So as a player tries to add U to his or her mana pool in that situation, Gauntlet of Power 's ability will trigger and try to add another U. Both will be replaced with colorless mana.
The only thing that's tripping me up is the fact that adding mana to your mana pool does not use the stack, so do replacement effects and triggered abilities still work as usual?
April 8, 2013 2:52 p.m.
While adding mana to the pool doesn't use the stack and can't be responded to, continuous and static effects are still functioning and looking out for the things they affect.
April 8, 2013 2:57 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #7
I agree with Devonin's interpretation. Compare this to other situations where a player would make a choice about doing something for an effect that has an "if you do" or "unless" clause. Even if a replacement effect makes the result of the choice something else entirely, the player still chose to do that thing and the effect will resolve accordingly (Browbeat and Circle of Protection: Red , etc.).
April 8, 2013 2:58 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #8
Goody brings up a good point about Gauntlet of Power being a triggered ability. I gave my answer too quickly without thinking it through, and the example I gave isn't relevant. In the same way that Rest in Peace kills "dies" triggers, the replacement effect of that color identity mana rule will cause the triggering event for Gauntlet of Power to never happen.
April 8, 2013 3:13 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #10
Rhadamanthus has the correct interpretation.
See this thread for further explanation.
April 8, 2013 3:36 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #11
The thread you linked to concludes with Devonin's original answer, so...
April 8, 2013 3:40 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #12
Strange; the discussion seemed to favor your answer until the final post. One user on MTGS claims the EDH rules committee settled on your view, but the strict interpretation of activating a mana ability seems to favor the other side. I will revert the answer for now.
April 8, 2013 3:49 p.m.
Gauntlet of power says "Whenever a basic land is tapped for mana of the chosen colour" not "When a mana of the chosen colour enters your mana pool"
So if you were to take control of another player's Island (A land which can only tap for U) and then tapped it for mana, my understanding is that you're tapping a land for blue mana, which is forbidden by the rules of the format from entering your mana pool as blue mana, so it enters as colourless. You've still tapped an island, you've still tapped a land for blue mana, the only thing you haven't done is added a blue mana to your mana pool.
Caged Sun specifies that you get an extra mana when you add a mana of the chosen colour to your mana pool. Gauntlet of Power specifies that you need only tap a basic land for the relevant colour of mana, and doesn't care which colour of mana actually ends up in your mana pool.
April 8, 2013 4:07 p.m.
Seems to me that the main issue is whether "tapped for mana" is synonymous with "adds to your mana pool". Taking into account that the oracle text for Gauntlet of Power still reads "tapped for mana" whereas cards like Caged Sun specify "adds to your mana pool", I'd say that tapping a basic land for a color outside of your commander's identity would still trigger the Gauntlet - like Devonin said.
April 8, 2013 4:54 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #16
An "official" ruling would need to come from either the EDH Rules Committee or a WotC NetRep.
After carefully rereading everything, I am inclined to agree with Devonin.
April 8, 2013 4:56 p.m.
Me and my friends also agree with Devonin and always have since in magic you always take things literally especially if you do not know otherwise. lol We went with what the cards actually said and the difference in wording on the Gauntlet of Power and the other versions like Caged Sun makes up our minds. Not that my say really matters I just felt like adding my two sense :P
Goody says... #1
Assume the land being tapped is basic, like a Forest or Mountain .
April 8, 2013 12:32 p.m.