O-Ring Exiled in Response to ETB Trigger?
Asked by iBryguy 11 years ago
This came up the other day during a game, and I wanted to know what should have happened:My opponent has Devout Chaplain on the field and two Soul Warden s. I play my Oblivion Ring , and when its ETB effect triggers I target the Chaplain. In response, my opponent taps the Wardens and activates Chaplain's effect to exile my O-Ring. From my understanding of the stack, it now looks like this:(First Off) Exile O-Ring(Last Off) Exile ChaplainWhen the first resolves, it triggers the o-ring's LTB effect, adding it to the stack:(Next Off) Return Card Exiled by O-Ring(Last Off) Exile ChaplainReturn card resolves, returning...nothing. The chaplain exile hasn't resolved yet. Now, it resolves, permanently exiling the chaplain.From the way I understand it, that's what should have happened. My opponent and some other people nearby claimed that no, this doesn't happen, saying that 1) since the o-ring is gone its effect never triggers and 2) even if it did, the return card would simply return it and the o-ring would still be exiled. I decided not to push the matter, because, since I have the least experience playing of the others (1 year vs. 3 or more), they weren't going to believe my claim.
Was I correct? Should this have exiled the Chaplain (similar to how the Parallax Wave + Opalescence combo can exile all creatures)? And, in case it comes up again, is there a specific ruling I can refer them to (if I'm right)?
smash10101 says... #2
gatherer rulings are great for this sort of thing.
"10/1/2007 If Oblivion Ring leaves the battlefield before its first ability has resolved, its second ability will trigger and do nothing. Then its first ability will resolve and exile the targeted nonland permanent forever."
You were completely correct. This is know as an o-ring exploit and there are decks based around it (most commonly Fiend Hunter and Deadeye Navigator ).
Also note that the new "o-ring"ish ability such as on Colossal Whale does not have this exploit since it it one ability.
September 17, 2013 10:36 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
It should be noted that there's no way for your opponent to do anything before the ETB ability goes onto the stack. Oblivion Ring resolves as a spell and enters the battlefield as part of the resolution. The ETB ability triggers and will be put onto the stack after the resolution, after state-based actions check, but before players receive priority.
Once on the stack, an ability exists independently of its source. Removing the source will not counter the ability.
Barandis says... Accepted answer #1
You were correct. This is the case with anything like Oblivion Ring or Angel of Serenity or Fiend Hunter or Journey to Nowhere or whatever.
If someone (including you) destroys the O-Ring with its ETB trigger still on the stack, then the LTB trigger will go on the stack on top of it. It resolves first, but since the O-Ring hasn't exiled anything yet, it will find nothing to return. Then the O-Ring is placed in the exile zone and its ETB trigger resolves. This exiles a target, but since the O-Ring is now gone and its LTB trigger has already resolved, there will be no way to get the exiled target back.
The Chaplain is long gone and there's no way to get it back. There is no way for him to use his Chaplain to kill your O-Ring in any other way, because by the time its ETB ability resolves and it would be safe to use the Chaplain, it's already exiled and can't be used.
There's not really much need for a specific ruling. Refer them to the entire section of the Comprehensive Rules about the stack (section 405), because this is quite simply the way the stack works at its most basic. If there's any argument about whether you're right, it's because your opponent doesn't understand the fundamentals of the stack.
September 17, 2013 10:18 p.m.