Interaction between Hostility, Torbran, and any damage spell
Asked by CamraMaan 4 years ago
This is a timing question... Hostility and Torbran, Thane of Red Fell are on the battlefield, and I cast Crackling Perimeter... will Torbran's +2 be seen by Hostility, creating three 3/1 Elementals per opponent, or just one? I'm guessing they are both replacement effects, so I get one, but not both...? Or do I get both...? I'm crossing my fingers for both..... ;)
If you tap a gate for the ability of Crackling Perimeter, then your opponent is the affected player and gets to chose which replacement effects to apply in which order.
If Torbran, Thane of Red Fell's ability is applied first, then Hostility's ability is still eligible to apply to the same source of damage (so functionally, you'd get to apply both). So except under very specific circumstances, your opponent is likely to choose Hostility's replacement effect first, so that Torbran's doesn't apply afterwards as no damage is being dealt.
January 21, 2021 7:13 a.m.
sergiodelrio says... #3
Ok, I see I messed up because I didn't even read Crackling Perimeter and was thinking Lightning Boltish spells. Its effect isn't a spell so Hostility does nothing. Only Torban will replace the damage.
Another big misread by me was that your opponent would obviously be the affected player and get to decide. But in the situation at hand, there's nothing to decide
January 21, 2021 9:03 a.m.
sergiodelrio says... #4
Actually think I might need an assist here, lol
@Neotrup, Gidgetimer et al
January 21, 2021 9:05 a.m.
It looks like the right conclusion has been reached, but I want to make sure it's spelled out:
With Hostility and Torbran, Thane of Red Fell on the battlefield, Crackling Perimeter will deal 3 damage, because only Torbran's replacement effect is applicable (Hostility specifically looks for spell damage).
That said, it's worth examining Gut Shot instead. The targetted player will get to choose whether to apply Hostility or Torbran per the quoted rule 616.1. If they choose Hostility, you'll get one 3/1. If they choose Torbran, then they'll get to pick again, with Hostility being the only available choice, so you'll get three 3/1s.
616.1e Once the chosen effect has been applied, this process is repeated (taking into account only replacement or prevention effects that would now be applicable) until there are no more left to apply.
It's also worth noting that Torbran has a replacement effect, but Hostility has a prevention effect. This doesn't change this particular outcome, as the referenced rules do apply to both replacement and prevention effects, but it the spell were instead Skullcrack you'd deal 5 damage to the targeted player, and Hostility's ability couldn't be applied for the rest of the turn.
January 21, 2021 10:56 a.m.
Wow, I seriously need to pay more attention... I thought I had picked a sorcery with Crackling Perimeter (maybe that was the card below it on my list?). I intended to pick an instant or a sorcery for the example... my apologies!
Thank you for all your responses!
sergiodelrio says... #1
You'll have to pick one.
And while Torban wants to modify a 'source', which doesn't necessarily need to be a spell on the stack, you won't get arount it in your specific example. Both replacements effects are looking to modify the same thing, so you pick one.
January 21, 2021 4:18 a.m.