Hypersonic dragon should affect pod. right?
Asked by zach7 12 years ago
Dont answer unless you read everything!!!
I have a Birthing Pod in play. i also have a Hypersonic Dragon in play
i should be able to pod whenever. idc what anybody says. read the cards. if i can activate pod whenever i can cast a sorcery let me ask you...when can i cast a sorcery?
the answer is whenever i want. so why cant i pod whenever also?
i have had a million people say pod isnt a sorcery so the dragons ability doesnt affect it. i understand it doesnt give it flash. thats not what im saying. im activating it on my opponents turn which falls under "whenever you can cast a sorcery" so why cant wizards print cards that do what they say they do?
also why isnt pod just activate pod as a sorcery? like equip...
The dragon effects spells, not abilities. Just because it's sorcery speed doesn't mean it IS a sorcery.
September 13, 2012 11:24 p.m.
read the post!!!!!
if you read it you would know that i clearly said i understand that.
answer me a question. when does Birthing Pod say it can be activated? "only any time you could cast a sorcery"
okay now answer me this. if i have a Hypersonic Dragon down when can i cast soceries? well acording to the reminder text i may cast them any time i could cast an instant.
so when can i cast instants? any time i choose. right
so when can i cast sorceries? any time i choose. right.
so according to the text on the cards. word for word. when can i activate pod? any time i choose. right. thanks for reading before you commented. oh wait...
so like i said in the question.why isnt it just "activate pod as a sorcery" like equip?
September 13, 2012 11:35 p.m.
Birthing Pod has an activated ability that is sorcery speed. Lingering Souls is a sorcery. If Hypersonic Dragon is in play, I may play my Lingering Souls because it has flash (meaning I can play it as an instant.) However, I cannot activate Birthing Pod 's ability because it is an ABILITY and is therefore not affected by Hypersonic Dragon 's ability.
The dragon only gives things marked as "sorcery" flash. Pod's ability isn't marked as "sorcery."
September 13, 2012 11:44 p.m.
you arent reading anyhting!!!! omfg
is everyone on here illiterate? i understand the rules. im not bad at magic
just do me a favor and read the cards. red what i posted
and explain how im wrong. because im not. you SHOULD be able to pod whenever.
READ THE CARDS
September 13, 2012 11:48 p.m.
nysgreenandwhite says... #6
Exactly. This isn't a fault of Wizards, since the rules clearly distinguish between spells and activated abilities. The ability's text is only a restriction on its use (because normally, since it's an activated ability, you'd be able to use it at any time), not a reclassification. Had it said something like "activating this ability counts as casting a sorcery," then things would be different.
September 13, 2012 11:50 p.m.
nysgreenandwhite says... #7
My "exactly" is me agreeing with post #4, not #5.
September 13, 2012 11:51 p.m.
I have read your comment. Let me break this down:
Dragon: You may play sorcery spells as if they had flash.Alright, cool, we get that.Pod: You may play this at any time you could play a sorcery.Righto, that means it can be played any time, right? No.
My Lingering Souls ? Well, it technically has flash. Why? Because it's a sorcery spell. Only sorcery SPELLS gain this ability. What you want to do with Pod is called an activated ability, making it very obviously NOT a spell. Therefore, it must be played at normal sorcery speed.
September 13, 2012 11:53 p.m.
It's funny how so many people are arguing about this.
There's a fundamental difference between "any time you could cast a sorcery" and "cast sorcery spells as though they had flash".
Here are what you've supposedly understood:
Fact #1: Hypersonic Dragon gives you the ability to cast sorcery spells as though they had "flash".
Fact #2: Birthing Pod 's ability is not a "sorcery spell". It's an activated ability. Therefore, it is not cast. It's activated.
Now take a step back.
Yes, you may cast sorcery spells with flash during your opponent's turn. However, Birthing Pod 's ability isn't a sorcery. It's an activated ability. Going by the Comprehensive Rules:
602.5d Activated abilities that read "Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery" mean the player must follow the timing rules for casting a sorcery spell, though the ability isn't actually a sorcery. The player doesn't actually need to have a sorcery card that he or she could cast."
It states that you would need to follow the timing rules for casting a sorcery spell, which are when the stack is empty, only on the turn of whoever casts or activates them, and only in a main phase.
It doesn't care that your sorcery spells now have flash. It only cares about how vanilla sorcery spells can be cast according to the rules.
Going by your logic, if your deck doesn't have any sorcery spells, you can't even activate Birthing Pod , because you will not be able to cast a sorcery, so you wouldn't be able to have a time where you could cast a sorcery ever, right?
And since you're harping so much on the Equip ability, from the Comprehensive Rules:
702.6a Equip is an activated ability of Equipment cards. Equip [cost] means [Cost]: Attach this Equipment to target creature you control. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.
Guess what? Equip and Pod's timing restrictions are exactly the same, so I don't see why you're continually harping on this.
September 13, 2012 11:53 p.m.
GoblinsInc says... #10
Should has nothing to do with it. What matters here is what you can do via the rules. If you think they should be changed so that this works as you want it to, that would be something to pitch to wizards.
If you think their comments that you cannot pod whenever you want are incorrect, I'm afraid they are right.
307.5. If a spell, ability, or effect states that a player can do something only any time he or she could cast a sorcery, it means only that ---the player must have priority, it must be during the main phase of his or her turn, and the stack must be empty.--- The player doesnt need to have a sorcery he or she could actually cast. Effects that would prevent that player from casting a spell or casting a sorcery dont affect the players capability to perform that action (unless the action is actually casting a spell or casting a sorcery).
September 13, 2012 11:55 p.m.
omg...this is actually painful. im gonna try to be calm.......
i understand that hypersonic dragon doesnt give pod flash
i understand that it doesnt allow you to pod whenever
BUT by the text on the card. if you read the text written on both cards you may cast sorceries anytime you could cast instants and you can activate pod when you can cast sorceries. so, based on what the card says you can activate pod whenever you can cast instants. so like ive stated previously. you SHOULD be able to pod whenever. period. and idk what you meant be the whole going by your logic thing because it made no sense but valiant effort
September 14, 2012 12:06 a.m.
Spinalripper says... #12
Birthing Pod 's activation period specifies that the ability can only be USED at the same time a Sorcery (sorcery is also a card type if you guys all forgot that0. That being said Sorcery's can only be played/cast during Mainphase 1 and Mainphase 2. Until Wizards find a keyword or something for that kind of ability they will compare it to something that most players understand, hence sorcery being said on the card... that doesn't make it a sorcery spell...
September 14, 2012 12:12 a.m.
GoblinsInc says... #13
If you take the cards merely by what is written on them, and not by how the rules are written to make them work, you'll find it quite a messed up game. Hence why we put little to no stock in "should". Since you don't seem to care about how the cards actually work, just how you think they should work (based entirely off the rules), I think this is the wrong forum for this discussion.
September 14, 2012 12:12 a.m.
Spinalripper says... #14
The card would LITERALLY not have space on it enough to try to explain that whole "This is an artifact that doesn't activate at instant speed" and still have room for the rest of the card's abilities.
September 14, 2012 12:14 a.m.
BatmanUriah says... #16
You are absolutely correct my friend. I'm not quite sure how no one else understands what you are trying to say; they must be god-hating atheists. Regardless of how unconditional the answers of these fellow tappedout members are, just know they can only answer to the best of their heathen-esque brain's ability.
Your point: "Activate this ability any time you could cast a sorcery" + "You may cast sorcery spells as though they had flash" = "The ability to activate Birthing Pod 's ability as an instant."
This is not rocket science, and I truly empathize with you, my magical colleague. Clearly if an artifact tells you to only activate its ability as a sorcery, it really means that you can treat the activation of this ability as casting a spell. I truly believe that they had Birthing Pod in mind when they decided to print Hypersonic Dragon with it's current verbiage.
Alas, we cannot all see the world through the eyes of one young, talented, omnipotent figure-of-a-man, such as yourself. Please take this as an apology from all of the previous attempts at answering your "question," and sleep easy knowing that you are not alone.
Peace be with you.
September 14, 2012 12:39 a.m.
shadowdart says... #17
Let me see if I understan Zach7's logic.
- Birthing Pod- "Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery."
- The existence of the mechanic flash- "You may cast this spell any time you could cast an instant"
- Fuck sorcery speed, everything should be instant speed. Equip, Planeswalker abilities, Etc.
Am I right?
While we are at it, I say we make triggered abilities, activated abilities and static abilities all instant speed too. Fuck having Felidar Sovereign activate at my upkeep, I should just win immediately, right? Forget rules, types, subtypes, triggers, judges, etc. The game isnt fun unless I get to do the exact thing I want. Wah Wah!
September 14, 2012 12:52 a.m.
PaladinRyan says... #18
If we simply took every card literally you would be absolutely correct. As the above answer states the logic is sound. However magic isn't so simple. We don't just go by text on the card. If we did you would most likely be correct. However as wizards has seen fit to publish a comprehensive rule book we must go by that and as stated by above posters theses rules define "activate as a sorcery" as being independent of your actual sorceries but rather defined by sorceries as a general card type. As such Birthing Pod is unaffected by Hypersonic Dragon 's effect. If not for this definition your interpretation could definitely be valid but since it exists me must follow it and all that can be inferred from it. I have done my best to respond to all your points and am sorry if it does not satisfy you but it is all I can offer.
September 14, 2012 12:58 a.m.
Spells are cards that are cast from the hand. So no, the Birthing Pod still has to be done with the restrictions of sorcery speed.This doesn't have anything to do with interpretation, just paying attention to the small details written on the card. The definition of playing a spell is casting it from your hand by paying the casting cost. stuff like Quicksilver Amulet 's ability isn't playing the spell either; it's just put onto the battlefield.
September 14, 2012 1:30 a.m.
and reading the bottom, you said that you are trying to activate it on your opponents turn, which also falls into the "you cant cast a sorcery right now" category.
September 14, 2012 1:31 a.m.
Ok, so it sounds like the person who made the original post understands that the comprehensive rules state explicitly that "cast as a sorcery" doesn't magically turn abilities into spells, but is just suggesting that the reminder text is ambiguous.
If this is the case, I would say YES, correct, reminder text is sometimes ambiguous. In this case, it is fairly easy (for someone with a basic or casual understanding of the rules) to read those two reminder texts and come to the conclusion that it works differently than it actually does.
But this is true of many common interactions in the game. You really can't sort out from the battle cry reminder text that Hero of Bladehold 's tokens can be 2/1s only if you stack the triggers right, or that they can come into play attacking your opponent even if your opponent used the +1 ability of Gideon Jura the previous turn.
Just last night at a magic club for new players, I had someone read reminder text for soulbond but they didn't think that creatures "enter the battlefield" when you cast them but rather each time you attack. A reasonable but incorrect interpretation of the reminder text.
The bottom line is that reminder text is just that. Something that can help remind you of the rules. It is not rules and doesn't replace the rules.
September 14, 2012 1:36 a.m.
The entire argument is moot when OP understands the definition of the words "Cast" and "Activate." Activated abilites cannot be given the ability Flash any more than they could be given Deathtouch. They are static keywords that stand in place for an ability that does not require trigger or activation.
You cannot add words to an ability produced by a spell or activation. Only Cards and Permanents may have abilites added to them. Hypersonic Dragon adds to all Sorcery cards in your hand and library the keyword ability "Flash" meaning that they can now be played at any time that you have priority, the ability to pay the cost, and are not restricted by effects on the battlefield.
Birthing Pod is an artifact with an activated ability with a restriction that it may only be cast when a sorcery would be allowed to be cast. It is not given Flash, nor is the ability unrestricted. Sorceries in your hand and library are given the ability Flash, which removes the timing restriction once the card is paid for and cast. The rules will still state what Sorcery timings are, and Pod will obey those rules. Since all Cards in your hand and library with the type "Sorcery(REALLY IMPORTANT)" are given Flash, they are really given "You may ignore the timing rules this card would normally obey and instead obey the rules for Instant-type cards and spells."
TL;DR, Pod is activated, not cast. Pod's ability is not typed as a Sorcery, the same as Blood Artist is not typed as an instant. Flash is a keyword that can only be applied to cards, not to abilities. Additions of Keyword Abilities do not affect the Game Rules.
P.S. "is everyone on here illiterate? i understand the rules. im not bad at magic"
No, we aren't; clearly, you don't; and yes, you are.
September 14, 2012 3:01 a.m.
If this is bothering you too much u could just run a deck with vinella creatures only instead
September 14, 2012 3:03 a.m.
zach7 I want you to understand that I do understand your logic. Shit still pisses me off that if my creature has "Protection from white" that a Wrath of God will destroy it. 'IT FUCKING SAYS PRO-WHITE, THAT CARD IS WHITE' goes through my head everytime the shit happens. Unfortunately my logic is wrong, and so are you.
At this point I don't need to bring up any rulings, rules text, or anything because these wonderful people have already informed you. Ask a judge at your local card shop you will get the same answer. I think you just want to be right at this point, and you aren't even listening to logic. It would not surprise me if some of these people were judges themselves, so take their advice and play it the right way.
September 14, 2012 3:04 a.m.
MagnorCriol says... #27
zach7, here's where the dissonance is.
You're interpereting Hypersonic Dragon 's ability as "you may cast sorceries anytime you could cast instants".
It does not do this. Reread it extremely literally - what it does is let you "cast sorcery spells as though they had flash". This is an important difference.
In effect this is adding the words "flash" to every sorcery in your hand. It is not changing the time when you could cast a sorcery, it's changing the sorceries in your hand so they can be cast a different time than otherwise.
So Pod's restriction of "any time you could cast a sorcery" still restricts you, because your ability to cast sorceries hasn't changed. Only the cards in your hand with the Sorcery type line have changed.
For a more...conceptual metaphor, imagine that sorceries are Square Pegs and can only go out the Square Hole. Instants are smaller Round Pegs and can go out either the Square Hole or the Round Hole. Hypersonic is taking all the Square Pegs and making them smaller so they can fit through the Round Hole. He isn't changing the Round Hole so that the Square Pegs can fit through it.
September 14, 2012 3:15 a.m.
@MagnorCriol: I like the way you explained it. This part:
In effect this is adding the words "flash" to every sorcery in your hand. It is not changing the time when you could cast a sorcery, it's changing the sorceries in your hand so they can be cast a different time than otherwise.
I'll be using your explanation in the future for simplicity's sake. :)
September 14, 2012 3:22 a.m.
MagnorCriol says... #29
Thank you! I'm glad that made sense to someone. I'm pretty good at coming up with multiple ways of explaining a perspective problem, but I'm never quite certain if they're as clear and expository to someone else as they do to me.
September 14, 2012 3:47 a.m.
If abilities like Hypersonic Dragon 's worked on abilities that can only be played whenever you could cast a sorcery it would render Leonin Shikari a cheap piece of garbage. Not to mention a number of other cards.
September 14, 2012 4:02 a.m.
This Q&A is over.
You are incorrect, and you refuse to read anyone's reason why. The selected answer has all the relevant information for why you are incorrect.
This thread has turned into a forum discussion, and it should be carried out in the forums, not the Q&A.
September 14, 2012 6:09 a.m.
BatmanUriah says... #33
I almost feel like everyone here has just been trolled super-fucking-hard. I also know that some people are just belligerent. Either one.
September 14, 2012 5:19 p.m.
I think the source of confusion here is not whether Birthing Pod's ability is a spell or not, or whether Hypersonic Dragon's ability caters to spells or not. The problem is the phrase "any time you could cast a sorcery."That phrase is false when it comes to situations like this. It is only a figure of speach, not always meant to be taken literally. What it actually means is "during a main phase of your turn." Therefore, Hypersonic turns sorceries into instants. Pod still only means "during a mainphase of your turn." Because "any time you could cast a sorcery" no longer means "during a main phase of your turn," Pod does not become instant speed like sorceries do.
KilroyWasHere1 says... #1
You can't activate pod's ability because it ISN'T a sorcery - it is at sorcery speed. Note that Hypersonic Dragon says "sorcery SPELLS".
September 13, 2012 11:23 p.m.