How do staggered infinite loops resolve?
Asked by Yesterday 2 years ago
I've breaking this question into chunks to be continues in the answers section because the last several times I've tried to post it as a whole, the Rules Q&A section collapsed and went under 'routine maintenance' for me, and consistently fails to parse the paragraphs properly.
First scenario:
Player 1 is the active player and controls a Spirit Mirror . Player 2 is the nonactive player and controls a Conspiracy naming Reflection, and a Frenetic Efreet .
Player 1 wants to destroy the Efreet before Player 2 gets the chance to resolve the Efreet's ability to potentially save itself. Both players can activate their abilities in response to the other player activating theirs, and wishes to keep on doing so. The modus is on the active player to not continue the loop. In this case, Player 2 gets a chance to save the Efreet before Player 1 can destroy it. Assuming we wait until Player 2's turn, if the same loop were to play out, then Player 1 (the nonactive player) would be able to destroy the Efreet before Player 2 gets the chance to save it.
Is this right?
May 26, 2021 9:14 a.m. Edited.
Second scenario:
Likewise, say Player 1 is has infinite damage in the form of an artifact that reads ": This permanent deals 1 damage to any target." And Player 2 has an artifact with ": You gain 1 life."
As long as Player 1 is the active player, they can't win the game. But when Player 2 becomes the active player, Player 1 can win the game because Player 2 is forced to decide how many iterations of the loop they're committing to before Player 1 does, and thusly 1 damage will get through when the loop resolves (and then it can be restarted)?
May 26, 2021 9:15 a.m.
Third scenario:
And if I'm all correct so far, then let's assume that Player 1 instead has a more realistic infinite damage combo in the form of Experiment Kraj , Argothian Elder with a +1/+1 counter, Ashaya, Soul of the Wild , Pemmin's Aura enchanting Kraj, Island , Prodigal Sorcerer with a +1/+1 counter. (Tap Kraj using the Elder's ability to untap Kraj and an Island, tap Kraj to deal 1 damage to any target, pay the Island's to untap Kraj with the Aura.)
May 26, 2021 9:15 a.m.
Third scenario continued:
Player 2 still controls the nonsense artifact with ": You gain 1 life."
In this case, regardless of who the active player is, Player 1 is unable to win the game as, in the shortcutting of the loop, Player 2 is able to activate the lifegain ability as many times as they choose in response to any of the three steps that form Player 1's combo that only deals 1 damage.
May 26, 2021 9:16 a.m.
So my question is, am I fundamentally understanding this rule correctly, and if so, are all these scenarios meant to play out as I've imagined them?
((Also as a side-note, I tried several times across nearly two weeks to post this question to the Rules Q&A section without success, and I couldn't do so now without breaking it apart across many different messages. Sorry it looks to ugly, I couldn't find a more elegant solution. I'm going to try to post something now about it in the appropriate forum now.))
May 26, 2021 9:19 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #7
Your understanding of the rules is sound, as is the reasoning in the first two scenarios. I would contend that the reason #3 will never let Player 1 win is that their combo is multi-step at all. Not that it is multi-step and only deals 1 damage. Player 2 can gain life in response to steps that are not immediately repeatable, so they will always prevail.
Yesterday says... #1
*I'm
I want to make sure I'm understanding correctly.
From MTG Tournament Rules
4.4 Loop
A loop is a form of tournament shortcut that involves detailing a sequence of actions to be repeated and then performing a number of iterations of that sequence. The loop actions must be identical in each iteration and cannot include conditional actions ("If this, then that".)
...
If two or more players are involved in maintaining a loop within a turn, each player in turn order chooses a number of iterations to perform. The game advances through the lowest number of iterations chosen and the player who chose that number receives priority.
May 26, 2021 9:13 a.m.