How do Lurrus and Lotus bloom interact?

Asked by blobman122 3 years ago

So I have been playtesting my Tayam, Luminous Enigma edh deck and I found myself being able to activate Lurrus of the Dream-Den on Lotus Bloom. My question is will Lurrus of the Dream-Den be able to reanimate Lotus Bloom without suspending it?

Tylord2894 says... #1

You can not bring back Lotus Bloom ok with Lurrus.

While Lotus Bloom does have a CMC of 0, Lurrus requires that you cast Lotus Bloom from your graveyard. To do that, you need to be able to pay the mana cost of Lotus Bloom, which is undefined. Any undefined cost can't be paid.

Hope this helps!!

April 28, 2020 11:10 p.m.

Yesterday says... #2

The thing to note with Snapcaster Mage is that it actually gives you an alternative cost to be paid, which in the case of Wheel of Fate means you can pay 0, because that's the card's converted mana cost.

Lurrus of the Dream-Den runs into the same problem as Jace, Telepath Unbound's -3 in that it doesn't give you an alternate cost to use, so you have to pay the spell's normal cost. Which as Tylord2894 explained, you can't do with spells with no mana cost.

April 29, 2020 8:11 a.m.

Rhadamanthus says... #3

@Yesterday: Snapcaster Mage doesn't work with Wheel of Fate and friends. It sets the flashback cost equal to the mana cost, which is still a "nonexistent cost", and nonexistent costs can't be paid.

April 29, 2020 8:36 a.m.

Yesterday says... #4

Oh. Thanks. I don't play with it, didn't read it properly, and couldn't remember the name of... Torrential Gearhulk. Which, reading that, also isn't a fantastic example.

April 29, 2020 8:57 a.m.

Kogarashi says... Accepted answer #5

Torrential Gearhulk works with instants with no mana cost specifically because the Gearhulk allows you to cast it "without paying its mana cost." If Lurrus of the Dream-Den did the same, then it would work with Lotus Bloom, but since Lurrus doesn't say "without paying its mana cost," it doesn't actually synergize with cards with no mana cost (you can't pay a cost that doesn't exist unless something lets you skip it).

April 29, 2020 1:32 p.m.

hellcatjr says... #6

I would disagree but I am probably wrong.

IIRC the rules state that anytime there is no cmc it is ZERO thus anything in the graveyard would be 0 too.

The cards themselves state 'rather than paying their casting cost'

Which would itself create a strange paradigm because it implies it does have a mana cost although because of the new concept of suspend, the cards themselves didn't have a casting cost shown as the suspend effect replaces it.

But again, I'm falling back on the concept that cards that don't state a cost are zero. Some cards even have this printed on them but it evades me to which ones.

It should be noted that some of these were considered unplayable at first because artifacts themselves with suspend would disappear out of play upon the last counter being removed. This has all been errated I had thought and were instead set to 0 and overruled by the cards suspend effect allowing them to work.

I think the base community doesn't like the idea of newer moxes / lotuses being made as it impacts the value of their beloved older jewels.

January 6, 2022 12:27 p.m.

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