Garth One-Eye's "create a copy"

Asked by legendofa 2 years ago

To date, Garth One-Eye is the only card that uses the phrase "create a copy".

  1. Do the Shivan Dragon s count as tokens, for effects like Dramatic Finale , or nontokens, for Always Watching ?

  2. Does creating a copy of a spell trigger magecraft (see Prismari Apprentice as an example) or is creating a copy of a spell different from copying a spell?

legendofa says... #1

For a little more background to my question, the word "create" has always been used in the context of tokens ( Dragon Fodder ), and "copy" is either initially a verb for instants and sorceries ( Twincast ) or a clone for permanents ( Sculpting Steel ). The new phrase "create a copy" doesn't follow either of these definition.

May 26, 2021 9:06 p.m.

legendofa says... #2

One last post, then I'm done until it's answered.

"Copy" has always referred to a card in a public zone--stack, battlefield, or graveyard--and never to an option.

I'm pretty sure this card was created with digital play in mind, for a computer to handle the dirty work.

May 26, 2021 9:16 p.m.

Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #3

  1. Without the release notes there is not yet a definitive answer. However; applying current rules in a way that would be logically consistent, if you copy a permanent spell the permanent the spell becomes is a token. If you create a copy of a permanent card and then cast it as a spell it would make sense for the permanent the spell becomes to be a token.

  2. Copying a card is not copying a spell. Magecraft will not trigger from creating the copy of the card. It will however trigger from you casting the copy. Much like how Isochron Scepter triggers Magecraft once per activation, when you cast the copy, Garth One-Eye will trigger (up to) once per activation, when you cast the copy.

May 26, 2021 9:18 p.m.

legendofa says... #4

Gidgetimer Well, I'll be waiting for the release notes. But your reasoning makes sense. Thanks!

May 27, 2021 12:01 a.m.

magwaaf says... #5

Sorry for the Necro but we are trying to figure out something about Garth. Does he put a token of a card into your hand or in play? Or do you have to play it immediately and it goes to the yard?

September 4, 2021 10:54 p.m.

Gidgetimer says... #6

To answer the general question- When an ability allows you to cast a spell, but doesn't specify a duration for when you may, it must be cast immediately. Cunning Rhetoric allows you to cast cards as long as they stay exiled, Apex of Power allows you to cast the same turn the cards were exiled, Isochron Scepter must be cast during the abilities' resolution.

To answer the very specifics of Garth- Copies of cards are created in the zone the original card was in. Since Garth creates a copy of a spell from outside the game, the copy is created outside the game. The copy doesn't exist in the game until it is cast.

707.12. An effect that instructs a player to cast a copy of an object (and not just copy a spell) follows the rules for casting spells, except that the copy is created in the same zone the object is in and then cast while another spell or ability is resolving. Casting a copy of an object follows steps 601.2a–h of rule 601, “Casting Spells,” and then the copy becomes cast. Once cast, the copy is a spell on the stack, and just like any other spell it can resolve or be countered.

704.5e If a copy of a spell is in a zone other than the stack, it ceases to exist. If a copy of a card is in any zone other than the stack or the battlefield, it ceases to exist.

707.13. One card (Garth One-Eye) instructs a player to create a copy of a card defined by name rather than by indicating an object to be copied. To do so, the player uses the Oracle card reference to determine the characteristics of the copy and creates the copy outside of the game.

September 5, 2021 2:55 a.m.

magwaaf says... #7

Cool so if I make a terror token, do I cast it immediately or can it sit?

September 7, 2021 12:31 p.m.

Gidgetimer says... #8

It must be cast immediately as part of the resolution of Garth's ability.

September 8, 2021 3:02 a.m.

magwaaf says... #9

Thank you!

September 10, 2021 8:11 a.m.

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